LIVE: Guardiola Says No Grazie, Pirlo Incoming

Football Italia

Lorenzo Bettoni and Richard Hall are back with the Football Italia LIVE Show in what is a sad day for Italian football, as Pep Guardiola, as expected, has rejected the offer to become the Azzurri coach. So, who will Paolo Maldini pick now? Andrea Pirlo is the favourite, but there could be surprises.

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Welcome to a new episode of the Football Italia live show. I'm Lorenzo Bettoni, joined today by Richard Hall. Ciao Ciao Richard, how are you doing? >> I'm good. I'm good. It's Yeah, it's not bad. It seems to be It seems like there's a lot going on, but not much happening at the same time. >> No, it's It's not much happening because now we got to choose another coach in the national team because Guardiola has rejected the opportunity to become the new Italy coach. It's something that was in the air anyway because it's been widely reported that Italy needed a miracle. Italian media have spoken and described the way that Guardiola was thinking like saying that we It was nearly a mission impossible, but it was worth trying. Of course, there will be consequences because the news came out and because now Italy have have to appoint a new coach. It's not much about the money as it was explained by Maldini yesterday, but it's more about the personal plans that Guardiola has. The feeling I have is that Maldini and Guardiola in that famous meeting last weekend didn't even talk about the money. They just spoke about the general availability that Guardiola had and then after that if Guardiola had agreed to join the project, I think they would have find a way to make it work financially. There were reports especially from Gazzetta saying Guardiola had demanded 20 million, but I think it never went that far. I mean, at the beginning it was just Do you want to come yes or no? And the answer was no. >> Yeah, it seems like that. I mean, you can project that. I think it's fair to because when we look at Guardiola's character, we've talked about it before. We've We've talked about his history. I said it in the last show that, you know, his move to Brescia wasn't financially motivated for instance. He's very much of a football purest mindset. And don't get Let's Let's I'm sure the money, you You if it had come down to it, there would have been a bare minimum that he could have gone for, of course. But, you know, he would have set a standard level, but being at Manchester City for the time he was, I don't think that obviously money was his main motivator. So, he's already said that he wanted to take some time out to to, you know, to to sort of re- >> rejuvenate >> himself like Klopp did for instance. We've just seen Klopp be appointed the national team coach of Germany, but he's had some time out in between. And I think the intensity when you see coaches like that or maybe Arteta for instance is another one at Arsenal. They sometimes can burn the candle, should we say, at both ends. And and so yeah, we are in that situation now where obviously it's not worked out, but I don't think it I don't think Italy or Maldini Leonardo could have done much more. >> No, absolutely. And actually, I'll say it again, just one person could actually try to convince Guardiola due to his status. And and I think really is Paolo Maldini. Yesterday, um we published a video alongside Peter Young of Football Italia um discussing the first Maldini press conference alongside Leonardo. They joined Giovanni Malagò for a meeting with Lega Serie A. They said a few interesting things. They Maldini revealed that he even talked to Carlo Ancelotti before actually speaking to Pep Guardiola and offering Guardiola the job. The way that Maldini spoke about his chat with Ancelotti made us suggest immediately that Ancelotti had rejected the chance to become Italy coach. First, because then there were talks with Pep Guardiola. And second, because um um I mean, uh quite simply, he spoke about Ancelotti with the past tense. So, it was clear that there was something that would never that would never happen. A third rejection which does not concern the coach, but concerns the overall structure of Club Italia is the one of Gigi Buffon, according to Gazzetta dello Sport, cuz Buffon has also rejected the uh the uh chance to return to Italy national team. He was already the delegation chief um over the last few years both under Luciano Spalletti and under uh Gennaro Gattuso. We will discuss this um Buffon decision and Ancelotti decision as well. Um let's uh now uh discuss a little bit how it looks like for Italy, according to most sources uh Sky and Gazzetta in particular, the leading name now is uh Andrea Pirlo. Corriere dello Sport, I think they're still quite strong uh on Roberto Mancini, especially for the um relationship that Mancini has with Giovanni Malagò. Uh we've been here before, Richard, discussing the best option for Italy, discussing uh um who else if not Guardiola. What I think here Sorry, I've been a little bit long in no in no news. Um Uh I think that with a coach like Guardiola, you would have had an established a super established coach who would not just take over the short-term things, but mostly adapt his knowledge to a long-term project. Uh I think they will still be looking for the same thing, but I think that with the long-term term project, if you don't get a very very experienced coach, like for example Conte or Mancini, by instance you go for Pirlo, then I think yeah, he will still be involved in the long-term project, but at the same time Maldini and Leonardo's views will count much more when it comes to the 8-10 year project that they mentioned yesterday. >> Yeah, it we are in a situation. Uh like you say, I think with Ancelotti, of course, he would have been >> [clears throat] >> of course a good option, but you know, he's about his project. So, I kind of think it you know, I don't think whether it's Maldini, Allegri, Leonardo, whoever, don't need to be too dejected [laughter] because Mancini is already on his own personal project in Brazil. That's okay. You know, Guardiola you can understand that, you know, there was at least there was conversations to be had. They are approaching the big names, the right names. Now, when it comes down to it, you have got that situation of it's almost like a two-way. You can go it's a crossroads. Because you can Now, the Italy and Leonardo still have that same path, the development of how they want the national side to be, Italy football to be in 6 to 8 years. >> [clears throat] >> So, it decide Now is quite a critical juncture for me because if it I can you can argue both sides. I mean, personally, you know, I was already saying for me steadying the ship and qualifying for the next, you know, qualifying repeatedly is what's most important thing and you would probably say someone like Mancini could do that. Even though he has failed in the past and I know there's a bad narrative in Italy about it, you would probably think that he was more possible to do that over Pirlo. However, if you're looking to someone who's going to be maybe influenced a little bit more, you know, you think I mean, I'm not the biggest validator of Pirlo for this, but you would think that maybe Maldini and Leonardo would be able to have more influence over him. Um I personally said in the first episode about this, I don't think Italian football is in the place yet where they can go for that Gareth Southgate type coach or Mancini, you know, where they they can do that because for me that's the next step. First, you need that continual qualification. You need the groundwork put in, everyone to be invested in the project, and then take someone from that youth system who's been coaching in the youth system. I think that's stage two. And I think for me, if you go for Pirlo now, you're probably jumping the gun a little bit. But that's only my opinion, but I definitely think whichever way they go, it's certainly um a crossroads here between going for more experience or maybe a bit of a gamble. >> Yeah, it's interesting what you say. The next step, I like it. Like later on, I think we're going to rank the options for Italy. >> [laughter] >> And I've been thinking about it for for the whole morning really. And I don't know. I will discuss it later on anyway, but it's interesting what you say. Like Spain, Argentina with Lionel Scaloni, England with Gareth Southgate. They came through different uh sort of development in terms of national football. Spain have a great you know, youth sectors at club level. They have great youth sectors at national team level. And so the decision they made it makes sense. And they are pointing at him after an iconic coach like Luis Enrique. With England, I think England and Argentina are similar. I mean they don't really have a like really strong footballing identity. They have very good players, especially one for Argentina. They helped him massively during the World Cup. England, they have a bunch of big players. I mean if you just think Foden and Palmer didn't make the team for the World Cup. I mean it's they would have played they would have been the president in Italy probably. They didn't even make it in England. So It's a whole different situation. And I tend to agree with you even if I would be intrigued by having an FA coach because I still think that when Maldini comes in, you need a sort of shock. And you need a decision that is not that like Pirlo, it's a decision that anyone could make. That's what I feel. >> Yeah. >> Somebody else it's it would be more of a surprise, but um let's see what happens there. We got the first comment here from Matthew. Thanks for following Matthew first of all. With respect to Pirlo's incredible legacy, I would not want to see him as Italy coach. I kind of feel the same really. >> Yeah. >> I covered Juventus when I when he was the Juventus coach. I was I was living in Turin covering Juventus. And it you can't say he had that relationship with the players. But yeah, the identity was not really there. Juventus managed to qualify for the Champions League mostly because of Cristiano Ronaldo. He's been out of top level football for for a few years now. I think you need to do a bit more at an international level in coaching terms at a European level in coaching terms to to get the job, which should be the highest ever for for an Italian coach. Now, the best Italian coaches are taken. We got Maresca going to Manchester City. We got De Zerbi going to Tottenham. Maybe if if Tottenham had not hired De Zerbi, he could have been a good name for Italy national team. But you know, it's He seems to be the man in pole position, but I would not rule out any surprises. I think a decision will come by Tuesday next week, I guess. How do you feel about Matthew's comment? >> I think Matthew's spot on in the way that we're thinking at the moment. I mean, like I said, you know, Pirlo might surprise everyone. So, this isn't you know just cuz what he said doesn't mean he's going to come to fruition, but that whole situation with Pirlo for me you hit the nail on the head there as well because Matthew's right. Look, Pirlo, and I said this on the last show, has an incredible legacy. And also, he's a very difficult He's a one of those players that transcends clubs. You know, people [clears throat] tend to always like Buffon, Maldini, and Totti, etc. But a few Lazio fans, of course. Um but you know, you you look at it and you think, well, they're iconic and and very much legendary. And so, he's done it fantastically well. But, you're right, you know, this the time at Juventus, exactly as you said, Sam. Mhm, you know, you've got those There's nothing really where he's hit that top top level. And I think when you're looking at a national coach these days, you tend to have that candidate who's gone through the FA, the legacy, the sort of, you know, that that idea of youth level, what this is about, defining the culture, how the national team works and comes through. Or they get a big name. For me, Pirlo's neither in that sense. He doesn't really fit there. So, you know, as I said before, echoing that fact and I I think it Pirlo maybe in the future, but not right now. >> Comment from Tom regarding the Guardiola decision. He's never coached He has ever coached top-tier players where money isn't an issue. Italy doesn't have that. Maybe he didn't back himself to do the job. Um Mhm. >> Yet again, then I I tend to agree with these. I still think that um an important part of the Guardiola job as Italy coach would have been uh lead the long-term tactical project. Of course, uh technical project, obviously. >> Mhm. >> Of course, there is a big uh impact on the [clears throat] senior team because that's what everyone's focused on, the results, the Nations League, qualifying for the Euros, qualifying for the next World Cup. >> Yeah. >> That's the priority. But, he he has changed football, um the way that football is played. He is very He knows really well the way to develop young players as well, not just how to buy them. So, I think it would have been an important asset in this regard. Then, uh uh it's true. I mean, he would not have I I think he's never coached a team that is probably as weak as the Italy side, especially in the attack. Uh and it would have taken a lot of effort to make them uh title challengers for any big tournament. So, uh it's true, but I think the aim for the Guardiola job was not was not just merely short-term. >> Yeah, I mean, I I agree with the the comment in the sense of there are some substitute players in Italy, don't get me wrong, but uh in comparison to the levels we've just seen in the World Cup, you know, there is some there are some really big voids, especially like you say in the attack with Italy. So, I do definitely get that point. For me, I think that Guardiola would back himself to do any job, personally. And that that situation, I think that it's just the amount the the size of the challenge and where he is right now. He's just put absolutely everything into what he's created at Manchester City. He's exhausted, he's come out of football. That challenge with Italy is equally as big, if not bigger. You know, because you've got like you say, you've got to figure out how to continually to get them to qualifying in the here and now, whilst working in the back to create a footballing culture in a nation with a huge identity, with huge expectations that is at a loss. That is massive. So, to to to maybe just I think he doesn't have the energy to do that because So, yes, in some respects, I don't think that he wouldn't back himself. I just think he realizes the size of the challenge. >> Got a few comments from Pablo. Pablo, thank you for following. Mentions a couple of coaches, Farioli here and Fabio Grosso as well. The problem is that they have a team already. Farioli is in charge of Porto. Grosso has just been appointed by Fiorentina. I think Maldini he said, "We are in a hurry." He said it yesterday. So, I think they want to take a decision again by the start of next week, and I don't think there is time to go to Porto, sit down, speak to him, assuming that he would see Farioli as as a possible option. So, I don't think it's feasible. Maybe if he had no team, it would have been one to consider because he's one of those coaches that are doing quite well outside of Italy, but have not been given a real chance in Italy. So, I saw another comment mentioning Italiano, Baldini. What does managers here is again talking about talking about Farioli. Thank you. We're receiving a lot of comments, by the way. So, thank you very much for that. So, I I will discuss later on the legacy and the bond between Maldini and Pirlo, trying to explain a little bit why they seem to be going towards this direction of hiring Pirlo rather than after that Pep Guardiola rejected the job. What I want to ask you here, Richard, is is another thing. Um, when I think both Spalletti and Gattuso failed in a similar thing. They started with a certain idea of football. They started very basically. They started with the idea of not touching the four-man defense. I covered Gattuso's press conference. I covered channel. It was his second, the first one in in before World Cup qualifiers where he took charge and he said, "I'm not going to touch the four-man defense because if I don't really believe in the three-man defense and if I do something I don't believe in, then players would spot it immediately." It didn't happen because at the end of the day they still had to play with the three-man defense. So, whoever comes in will have to find a good balance between his tactical ideas and probably what the player wants. What the player wants. >> Yeah, Massimiliano. I don't think that Italy are in a situation where they can dictate the formation that maybe suits what the incoming coach wants completely. So, I don't think you can have that sort of resolute, "We're going for it. We're about We're doing this. We want to play in a certain way." Um I think that you've got to look realistically at And again, this is where This is where the the conflict of interest is going to come in and why the job's so big because you're going to look at a situation where the players Italy have right now >> [clears throat] >> might not suit the way that Maldini and Leonardo want the whole team to play in the future. So, it's going to be very difficult to just transcend that part. So, I think that for me, whether it's I was seeing some great names being mentioned. Um you know, for instance, I mean Fabio Grosso. He's a coach that really intrigues me cuz I love Fabio Grosso. But, I cannot work him out as a coach. You just Sometimes I think he's amazing. Sometimes I really struggle with him. But, you look at There's so many different coaches with similar identities. And to come in, I think Maldini and Leonardo have to have some a little bit more meat on the bone of whichever coach comes in that this is the way they want to play. This is what they want to do in the future. Even if they're not there right now, that they want to adapt towards that. Because you have to see some sort of transition. I This plan needs identity. It needs communication. It needs good marketing. You can't just say, "Listen, we're going to transform Try and transform football in 6 to 8 years." You have to look and if the if that means playing three at the back, it might be look, "This is how we see it Italian football. It's going to have some of the old traditions with this new new idea around it." Now, whether that's a whether that's a tactical approach, it might not be. It might be just the way that they bring players through. Um there's a whole different area around it. So, it's really a big topic and hence why I said Guardiola knows obviously how big a challenge this is. So, looking at coaches that come in, I I'd certainly to answer the question, don't think that anyone at all can come in and say this is how I want to play because these are my ideas that I've played with X club. Because they need to have the not only on the same page as the players, but also of Maldini and Leonardo. >> So, we need to talk about the legacy between Pirlo and Maldini because Pirlo again is actually the leading candidate according to various sources here in Italy to become the new Azzurri national team coach after Guardiola rejected the the Azzurri offer. They never played together, Maldini and Pirlo with the national team. Maldini played his last game at the World Cup, that disgraceful match against South Korea in 2002 with Italy eliminated by the Moreno, red cards, controversies, goals disallowed for offside and all that. Pirlo made his debut the game after that, the first game after that World Cup in September 2002. So, they never played together with the national team, but they won a lot of trophies with Milan, two Serie A titles, one Coppa Italia, two Champions League, two European Super Cups and a Club World Cup, which obviously had a different format back then. Maldini already wanted Pirlo as Milan coach. They discussed the matter. Pirlo also admitted it a few years ago. He said they only spoke about it as friends, but there was there would have been an offer on the table for Pirlo, I think to replace Stefa