Mancini Is The New Coach, Italy Have Wasted Time
Lorenzo Bettoni, Richard Hall and Adam Summerton discuss Roberto Mancini's appointment as Italy's head coach, the future implications, the challenges ahead and the saga surrounding Paolo Maldini, Leonardo and Andrea Pirlo.
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Welcome to the Football Italia live show. I'm Lorenzo Bettoni. Today one person was not enough. I got two special guests with me today, Adam Summerton, Richard Hall. Thank you so much, guys, for joining me. It's going to be a long live show, an interesting one. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Another quiet week in Italy. >> It is. >> [laughter] >> It's It's been quite a week. It's been quite a few couple of weeks, I would say. Um I want to start, Richard, the very first show we did on this channel on Football Italia, it was about Mancini's potential return as Italy coach. It was June 15th, so 1 week before Malagò was even appointed as the FIGC president. And there were already rumors back then that Mancini was the top candidate. It was known that Malagò was by far the favorite to win the FIGC presidential elections over Giancarlo Abete, who had already served as the FIGC president in 2024, resigning after being eliminated from the World Cup. And I remember so well what you said. Uh We We discussed a lot, Rich We discussed a lot, Adam, about the name of Mancini, the name of Conte, other potential candidates. And one of the things that you said, which is emerging from media now as well, is just can't get the job because you're a good mate of the FIGC president. Now, the experience of Roberto Mancini as a coach, I still think he he he he was one of the top names available for Italy. Think I still think he he he was not the appropriate name for Italy national team, but it feels like it's it's now June 16th rather than nearly August. And a month has passed, Adam, and Uh, and here we are. Mancini is the new coach after all that happened. How do you see the whole thing? >> Well, how long have we got? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I mean it's to go right. I mean let's be honest and say from the outset that the whole process really was shambolic. I think I don't think I don't use that word to exaggerate at all. I think it was embarrassing as well. Um, but for all the talk of change, Italy have ended up with a coach who's previously walked out on them. And as you've just said, he is a a close friend of I think that's very much out there of the president who has appointed him. I guess that said, to back up what you've said there, you could look at the list of or the list that was made public anyway and that's been reported in the press of available candidates. And you know, Mancini certainly has his merits and Malagò may well feel that he is the best candidate or available candidate for the job. But uh, the whole process has been so unedifying. Uh, the arrival and departure so quickly of Maldini and Leonardo is so disappointing because I think that that gave a lot of people great hope that there was that the penny had dropped with Italian football, that they were serious about serious change. And I think Maldini is somebody who clearly is quite single-minded, somebody who uh, would not be led, somebody who would be prepared to or as we've seen, die on the hill of of the person that he felt that that he wanted. Um, I think it's such a shame that somebody of his standing and caliber doesn't now be involved with this whole process of taking Italian football forward. Um, but yeah, I mean there's just so much to discuss in terms of the appointment of Mancini and and where this takes us, what this means. Obviously, you know, we're having Claudio Ranieri coming as well. There's talk of Zola, too, that I know I know you'll want to get into, but in summary, I think the whole process has showed that perhaps not quite as much is changing in Italian football as many think needs to. >> Yeah, he's he's you're you're 100% right. I think that, you know, when we looked at it and Lorenzo, you're were there before, you know, this Mancini link was so early on. And then that whole process which looked, as you say Adam, to brighten Italian football future in some respects where you looked at the situation where rather than just going doing the same old, you know, looking And this doesn't mean that Mancini wouldn't achieve something or Conte wouldn't have achieved something at the time. Those names were there. But then this idea that seeped in with Maldini coming through, this almost like revolution of what could happen. Especially then you see these huge names, you know, Guardiola, Ancelotti, the great hope of how we've talked on this show so many times now about changing the system, getting young players through, this job being bigger than just the national team, the whole shape of Italian football. All of a sudden it looked, as you say, the penny had dropped and it almost seemed as though people would listen to Maldini. This is something new. It's They're going to back him and Maldini for this decision. That's new. And whoever that coach was going to be, it looked fantastic. And then you saw that idea of Guardiola, Ancelotti sort of dissipate because of circumstance and the personal circumstances of both both cases. Okay, that still took some gloss off it. And Pirlo wasn't exactly everyone's choice, but still Maldini's choice. To come around here and be back where we were a month ago, and this is not having almost like you say we'll talk about Emerson and Mancini. Mancini being appointed is fine, but to go around this whole merry-go-round, this roller coaster, it's like going on a roller coaster to get on the same bus. You know, at the end of the day this could have been done. And the only problem is now is it just makes the federation everyone involved in this process, including the name of Maldini in some respects, it does put a stain on it and it's unfortunate because this could have been either done so much It just could have been done a lot easier. I just uh approach Mancini in the first place or back the process. And we've talked about this before, but we are where we are. >> Exactly. What I don't understand, we already have a few um a few messages here that we going to uh read through the live show as usual. What I don't understand here is why would you do all that pantomime about talking to Maldini for two weeks about wanting to appointing him about him being the central point of the new technical project which included Maldini picking the new coach. Of course, the final green light would always come from the FIGC president because that's his role. But I mean, how if Mancini was the starting idea because it's clear that Mancini was the very first candidate for Giovanni Malagò. So, June 22, Malagò is elected. Just come and say, "Look guys, I'm the FIGC president. I'm going to discuss with the various component of the FIGC, but Mancini is my strong candidate. And then from Mancini, from the head coach, we start the new process. We start hiring a new technical director and we start towards a different path. The way that this has been presented now is that everything is changed to have no change. To have nothing new because we started with technical director appointing a coach and then after two weeks uh the technical director is gone because uh he felt that his autonomy was no longer there in terms of decision making. So, a new coach is coming in and he's the first name that was originally uh in the president's mind. So, I don't get the whole thing about doing this project and uh and just uh you know, scrap it in uh in two weeks. I still believe there are responsibilities from Maldini as well because when you are in such position, it's clear that Pirlo wasn't the top choice for the role. Uh there were there was Guardiola, there was Ancelotti, but as we said other times here in the show, there is a middle ground between what Maldini called the best in the world and Andrea Pirlo, with all due respect to you. So, the choice he made was debatable, but it was his choice. And what When you appoint Maldini, you have to know that, as Adam said, he's not one who's going to be led. He's one who want to make his own decisions, and you have to know you're going to hire a figure like that. And most even most worryingly, before appointing Maldini, you have to know which kind of coach he wants to bring in. Because he had to knew that it was not Mancini. >> I think what's incredibly frustrating about this is that I feel that they've lost somebody who could have made a real difference in a role that I actually feel where Italian football is right now, it's for me it's more important than the head coach because any coach needs good players to get consistent results. Now, Italian football's problem right now is below the the coach. It's the opportunities to get young players through. It's the opportunities to develop particular types of players. Before we came on air, I was saying to Lorenzo, there's not enough wide players, there's not enough sort of exciting attacking players being produced by Italy right now. So, I feel that somebody somebody like Maldini, you you put him in position to help bridge those gaps, you help put in the systems. And it's so unfortunate as well that I feel that in order to achieve what it needs to do Italian football, to get it start going in the right direction again, it needs collaboration, it needs cooperation, it needs everybody pulling in the same direction. You know, those below the senior side, those who work in the youth system, the clubs. And it feels to me like this whole process, if anything, it's damaged that even further, rather than pull everybody together. I mean, even before I came on to to to you guys, I read reports that the clubs are up in arms that Mancini's been given the job because they wanted Conte. And this is a great problem as a as an English person observing Italian football is that it just feels to me like everybody's always pulling in different directions. And I feel like it needed somebody of that single-minded nature to be given that authority to say, "We are appointing you because we believe in you. We are appointing you because we believe in what you've said you want to do and how you think change can be achieved. And we are going to back you." And at the very, very first opportunity they had to show that backing for Maldini, they didn't give it him. So, it's it's a it's just crazy for me. >> 100% and this is what we're talking about in one respect is it's that fear of change. Well, it's obvious that what's going on isn't working. I mean, this isn't just a qualification for the the last World Cups. This has been going on way before when we've talked about Italian football and I'm not going to say the state that it's in but in in a sense of there has been issues with it. And this goes, you know, why they haven't had a major tournament. We've talked about the stadiums. There's lots of different things that have had been problematic. And one of the biggest things we've talked about on here and I haven't mentioned there is that those young players aren't coming through. Um there is there has been talent in the under 15s, 17s, etc. And when we looked at the example we used last time of someone like POS Posito who's out on loan at Spezia before he gets to come to Inter. He's actually still looking as a young player coming through to one of the big clubs. And yet you look at all of the rest of them. And when we use the example of um Max Aarons at Arsenal in comparison, he's still a big team, you know, Champions League finalists. And yet we'll blood younger players. And like I've said, that idea that Maldini was going to help reform Italian football in that state really did I think resonate with so many fans of Italian football. But now it is it's tainted. It's almost like that idea was almost there. And then no, we're too scared of that. The problem is now how that leads forward because as one of the comments I think it bigger picture said before, you've got Mancini been there, done that. Mixed feelings from all sorts of the clubs, the people, the fans about him. You've got Ranieri coming in as well of an age. Okay, there may be an argument that yeah, he's the the shield between Mancini clubs and others because of his nature. But still, it looks as though it's gone backwards rather than forwards and it does I don't see now how Italian football plans for the future on that main scale. >> We've got a few comments again here Antonio. As usual, thank you for following us Antonio. Saying a little bit what what Adam said a few minutes ago. I'm less concerned about the coach and more concerned about the youth sector. It is time to really invest in the future. What one of the things that I don't understand about this whole mess is this link-up between the first team coach and the youth development. And it's one of the things that I don't understand about the Maldini reasoning to be fair cuz I still think Maldini has a bit of responsibility in this even though I think he felt it was clear from the very beginning that the change that he was seeking was not eventually possible. But what I think is you don't get somebody like Ancelotti who knows Italian football so well. You don't get an iconic coach like Pep Guardiola. So any other coach is somebody that you get just to you know, assess the current situation and try to get the best result now. I don't think it has anything to do with what will happen to Italy Italian football in 10 years or in 15 years. I think you can still do the two things together. It's like a club appoints a coach and they want him to develop uh to get the results with the first team, but at the same time develop the strategy for the long term. There are some figures that can do that because they are exceptionally good. And Ancelotti and Guardiola clearly are these types of coach. But if you get anyone else, then you can just accept and say, "Look, we didn't have Guardiola, we didn't have Ancelotti. We start with one of the with the safe option, which can be uh Mancini or Conte. And we develop the youth system or the long-term project in a different way because we have coaches that not that are not able, but uh they their focus must be somewhere else. So, I don't think it's the two things, the coach of the senior team and the long-term project necessarily go any hand in hand. Am I wrong? Is it something that makes sense to you guys? >> Let Adam do this one, but I'll just jump in and say one thing before is that we cuz we did I've touched on this with you before a little bit and it can in my opinion can go hand in hand if you have Maldini doing that. And the fact that Maldini's gone, I mean the the actual um the idea of that, does it work? Having a coach that's going to get you qualified for the tournaments in the foreseeable future? Yes. While someone is working in the background to sort out how the youth development system can infiltrate through to the senior squads and the main clubs and then therefore the national team. Yes, that can work in tandem. However, my question to to both of you is now that Maldini has gone in that way, surely the system looks broken. So, who would want that job? Because from my point of view, what it looks like is if Maldini and Leonardo have had their ideas, had their thoughts, it's not been listened to, anyone going into that role now is surely looking and going, >> [clears throat] >> there's no there's no will for change. >> I think it depends what Ranieri's role ultimately becomes and how, you know, revolutionary it is, how many ideas he's able to bring to the table, whether he's maybe he might just be seen as a a kind of a figurehead. You know, we talk about Mancini, you know, he's not exactly a unifying figure, is he, because of the history he's got with the national team and not just as a coach, as a player as well. I mean, that was a, you know, at times quite a checkered past with the with the national side, too. So, Mancini simply isn't a unifying figure, whatever way we look at it. People are going to be against his appointment. I saw Capello speak out before he'd even been appointed that he didn't think he should go back as as the coach. So, maybe Ranieri, a little bit like we saw when he went back to to Roma again. I mean, how many times has he come out of retirement, by the way? But, [laughter] um, you know, he was that kind of >> Poor wife. >> Yeah. Yeah. He's like that unifying figure, isn't he? That everybody he's got that sort of widespread and quite rightly so for what he's achieved in football and his personality. Everybody respects Ranieri, don't they? So, he is that figurehead that that maybe people can look to. I just don't think and, you know, at the stage of life he is as much as anything. I mean, as I've just said, he's he's literally retired twice, or is it three times? So, he's he's nearly 75 years old. So, it's going to be difficult for him to have the same sort of effect as somebody like him a much younger man with, you know, with more zest and drive, perhaps, that that a Maldini might have brought to all of this. So, it's very difficult to answer these questions without seeing how it all works. You know, how how much power, how much say, how many ideas is he going to bring, Ranieri? I suppose we're we're only going to find out in the fullness of time. But, I mean, I said to Lorenzo weeks ago that my pick for the job would have been Baldini, um, because I feel that Italy right now, for where they are in their development, what needs to change, what is good about Italian football, I feel there's clearly good young players there because they have inconsistent sustained success at youth level. It's just not translating yet to the senior side. So, for me it's about building those bridges from the the youth sectors that are doing really well in terms of the national side, developing the youth sectors of the clubs in Serie A, too. Getting more young Italian players playing in Serie A. And for me, that that screamed out, get an FA FA man in there doing the job. A little bit like we've seen um like um in Spain with De la Fuente. You know, it's he he wasn't somebody who had a you know, a an exciting track record at a club level. Now, I'm not saying that the two men's careers are necessarily that comparable. However, it it's that kind of guy. Somebody who's been working with these young players. Uh and and I have to say, I covered both of the games that he took charge of with the senior side. Now, I know there might be people screaming, yeah, but it was exceptional circumstances. It was a you know, really experimental squad. And both those things are true. But you could see the atmosphere that he created in that squad was fantastic. You could see you didn't need to even be there. watching it on you know, a TV as I was covering it from London. And you could see the atmosphere and the way that the senior players that were in that squad really bought into it as well. I don't think that happens if there isn't a level of respect for the coach involved in that. So, I thought that was really impressive. And I would have been very tempted after the the whole fiasco and the total shambles of the and how public they made the whole chasing of Guardiola. Once that didn't work, I would have been very tempted. And I think it would have been the right thing to do to say, right. Let's not rush this. Let's take our time. Let's give it to Baldini for the Nations League. See how he does. Everybody stay calm. And then maybe appoint somebody. I don't think [clears throat] it necessarily needed to be cuz I think he would have done a good job. I really do. And I think for where Italian football is right now, it's just not a sexy enough name for some people. And and that and and that is a a big thing in all of this, I think. But sexy names aren't always needed with national sides. It's a totally different job to club football, totally different. And and and and this was all I felt that was completely ignored in in the whole Guardiola. I never thought Guardiola was was right. I I'm sorry. I know he's one of the greatest coaches of all time, but I just didn't see it. I I just don't se