Why Bayer Levekusen Is the Best Story in Football
Ben Jacobs and Angus Scott invite Kevin Hatchard into the show to discuss why Bayer Leverkusen is the best story n football.
字幕
hello and welcome to the debrief I'm anger Scott just when you thought football was getting predictable Along Came jabbi Alonzo the smart thinking midfielder has transitioned as smoothly into the role of manager as he used to Glide around the grass of anfield or the bernabo he turned down various opportunities and ended up in the Midwest of Germany why go to lusen dubbed nusen when there were potentially better opportunities well fast forward 22 months and his bya lus via lusen side are eight points clear of perennial Champions Bayern having beaten the Champions 3-0 at the be beginning of the month it is certainly the best story of the season so far but where next for the Spaniard Liverpool or Bayern or does he stay at lusen we will discuss that in today's debrief pleased to be joined by Ben Jacobs who's hotfooting it from a Powerhouse of a seminar in katar good afternoon yes I'm here at web Summit as I think you can see given my background looking forward to talking about lusen the second best football story of the Season behind Leicester City's procession to the championship title ah but you're still in the cup Ben and that might Scupper things you never know I'm also pleased to say that Kevin Hansard a European football expert works for the Bundesliga as a commentator and his talk sports German Football expert is also with us Kevin great to have you on the debrief and great to be with you guys and talking about what's been a really exciting story actually this season you know we've been waiting for Bayern to have serious challenges they had one last season didn't quite work out for Dortmund so it's been great to see them challenged again well tell us about the fairy tale this year because as you say it went down to the the last minutes um with Dortmund fluffing their lines last year Leverkusen and jaby Alonzo are far more in charge as I said eight points clear at the top and looking very good for the Bundesliga title it's come out of nowhere I have to say I don't think anybody in German media in wider media thought that this was going to happen I think there was a feeling if you look at what leusen did last season Alonzo arrived in the October of that campaign and at that St AG it looked as though they were you know in the midst of a relegation fight Gerardo Zan had been dismissed it had been a big surprise that they declined so quickly under him and when shabby Alonzo came in it was all about keeping them in the division he was able to do better than that they were able to finish in the top six and then also go quite deep in the Europa League they got to the semi finals of that competition they got Mourinho they were kept at arms length by uh very determined Roma team who played some pretty awful football over the two legs but did enough to make it through to the final and I think this was all about qualifying for the Champions League this season it was all about making that next step maybe improving the consistency but I don't think anybody expected a a title push and B one that's been so full of consistency I mean the Steelers we speak now have not lost a single game in any competition they broken the record that was held by Bayern for most unbeaten games in competitive football for a German team at any level and it really is quite remarkable what he's been able to do actually I have done him him a disservice because my maass is not very good you're right October 22 he arrived so we're only talking at 16 months we're not talking 22 months at all so it is even more remarkable what he's managed to achieve in such a short space of time what has he done done to do it to turn around this club and and give it belief and and start dispelling that tag of nusen yeah so I think the most interesting thing for me is that the Temptation is to think that it's been an upward curve all the way actually what happened was he took over and they had a real bounce when he first took over and then there was a spell where they suffered a few defeats and there was a bit of Doubt there were quite a few people saying well you know is he a bit of a flash in the pan is this really working he was still trying to work out exactly how he wanted his team to play and this season I I think the key is the Synergy between Chevy Alonzo and zimon rolus the the sporting director who's done a super job because if you look at the guys they brought in in the summer they've been transformational Granite Jaa has really strengthened that Midfield brought all of his experience to the party so he came in Alex Grimaldo has been Sensational on that left hand side goals assists you name it perfect for the way Alonzo wants to play has that ability that very modern ability of being able to invert and make the extra man in Midfield Yannis Hoffman was a really sensible pickup from by baruo mention gladbach he came in for a very low transfer fee I think really caught gladbach by surprise he wasn't a player they wanted to lose but he's a guy with real experience he's been a bit of a late developer in his career but he's provided goals in the and Victor bonface even though he's injured now and they're hoping he'll come back in time for April I mean he was unbelievable in attack in the opening months of the Season not just for his goals but for his all action approach you know lots of goal attempts all the time a nightmare for Defenders to deal with so shabby Alon has talked about this specifically he said those guys were all strategic thinkers they were all guys who think very deeply about the game and they've just lifted that Squad there's been competition for places but also I think a feeling that this is a very intelligent group and A really lovely mix of Youth and experience and it's proven to be a very powerful combination yeah Ben don't talk to me about where Alonso might go because I I know we we're talking to Fab in just a moment and he's got some news on the Liverpool end and I think you're going to be able to add to that very shortly but do give me the Liverpool full perspective of how much they admired alono when he was a player there and thought of him as a future manager well I think there's two aspects one is Alonzo the player understands the Liverpool culture and two is has Alonzo the manager done enough to be a front runner for the Liverpool job and I think when you look at the criteria that Liverpool are looking for and of course Bayern and maybe Real Madrid in a year's time as well he ticks a lot of boxes because what Liverpool want in a manager is somebody that can work in a system so have a close relationship with the sporting director and the recruitment team that's a tick for Alonzo is conscious of data and that's a big part of Liverpool's model and in addition to that has the man management style and also the culture and the philosophy that would Bedwell into a Premier League club like Liverpool who are all about transitions so when they pick their new manager they're not doing what some other clubs do and just looking for the best out there as a Football manager they're looking for a football fit a personality fit and a strategic fit and Alonzo ticks those boxes perhaps Ruben amarim does maybe Roberto deserie does as well he won't be the only candidate for Liverpool but this is where the Links come from it's not just about the fact he's unbeaten at Leverkusen this season it's the fact that as a player for Liverpool now as a manager for Leverkusen there's a lot of synergy between Alonzo's philosophy and what Liverpool are looking for and again to stress that isn't only something that should be looked at in football terms Julian nlman who I'm sure that Kevin will have some opinions on is another alleged candidate but I'm told that he's not a front runner for Liverpool why top football coach but not the right personality or strategic fit and this is why Alonzo might get the Liverpool job and may transition to Bayern and may go to Real Madrid but it's also why Leverkusen will fight very hard to keep hold of him because they're aware that they've got some in my opinion anyway I don't know whether you agree Kevin that's more than just a football manager yeah I think that's fair to say I think he is certainly somebody who speaks very well gets the most out of players I think he's shown already he's a very clever politician in the way that he shut down the speculation you know it hasn't been about him it's been about what's best for buer it's been about the group rather than just him you know he doesn't strike was somebody who has um an ego that's wildly out of control look all players all coaches have a healthy dose of ego you couldn't do the job if you didn't but he's very much got his under control and I think he has been a real Statesman this season I I think as well what he's been able to do is he's been able to keep the tension under control I thought the way they commentated on the game against Bayern M Munich recently I nearly said Bay munin then because that's what Bayern asked us to do so the old training kicked in there um that was one of the most remarkable games I've seen in a long time in the sense that he made some really big calls in terms of his selection he left out Jeremy frong who'd been a hugely important player for them down that right hand side he left out yis hofman played Yip stanishic who hasn't been a regular starter this season on loan from Bayern and it worked perfectly stanesic scored which was a bit awkward for him seeing as on alone from Bayern but they the plays he did bring in he wanted to play Amy adley he wanted to play Nathan terer in that front three why did he want to do that well it wasn't just about the attacking speed they have it was about their ability without the ball it was about their pressing and Bayern just couldn't deal with it they were smothered couldn't find a way through they look really ragged their gambles tactically and in terms of personnel didn't work played a back three which is a mad thing to do in such a big game considering they haven't really done that and it really I think I know we shouldn't judge things on one game but I think what it did do is it showed how bold shabby Alonzo can be in those big one-off games that ultimately decide whether you're G to win things or not and I think any club looking at him would have already had a very wide picture of him a very POS positive picture of him but that under the most enormous pressure that level of coaching performance really was something quite Stark that's really interesting you say that because we know other managers who've done that on big occasions I you think of Pep and his early finals and do something a little bit mad and everyone's gone what on Earth are you doing and it's backfired but what what jabbi Alonzo has done there has clearly paid off and one thing that's interesting that you say Kevin then for those people who haven't watched much of by lus we must talk about the pressing that they use and did use against B Bayern in that um in that match that they so um completely over over um a them really just tell me a little bit about the style that you've been able to watch this season yeah they're a really interesting outfit actually because I think people sometimes think about you know when you look at Liverpool for exam example under joggen klopp and how intense they are in their press how aggressive aggressive they are they'll just swarm people all the time it's not quite like that but it's a very measured press which has clearly been coached incredibly well you know people will tell you pressing is based on triggers you know when do we go and and you have to go as a unit as well they do that really well they did it against Bayern Munich they they cut off all the passing Lanes they use Speedy players who could make up the ground really quickly and the other thing that I think is really interesting with with them out of possession is they've almost conceded no goals on the Counterattack it's such a small number of goals on the Counterattack and what they're really clever at doing is snapping back into shape when they lose the ball so it's a really good mix of the kind of standard pressing as you would know it in terms of when to engage as a team tries to move up the pitch but also when they lose it they're really good in those transitional moments at getting back into position in terms of the attacking play they're so good to watch because it's not it's not Furious football they're not at you all the time but what they do is they have a lot of short passes that lull you into a false sense of security and you think okay well these guys are in front of us this is fine and then they'll hit you with Pace with frong down the left they'll hit you with quality with Alex romaldo down the left they've got players who can drive from Midfield and then you got Florian vetz who's one of the best number 10 in European football I think in between the lines doing all kinds of damage so they can hurt you in lots of different ways and I always feel that is the the Hallmark of a good team that they're not just relying on one or two ways of scoring goals it's a slightly ridiculous point and question Kevin but I'm gonna ask it anyway because I think we need to cover it lus and their ID entity they're playing brilliant they're unbeaten so regardless of what bu and do they're unbeaten and as a consequence it would always be a fairy tale story but how much do you think lusen have been galvanized by and how relevant is it that Bayern are having such a disaster of a season well so the The Narrative quite rightly is that Bayern have massively underperformed and I think they have I think they've got problems in terms of the Tactical structure I'm actually a big fan of Thomas tuckle but I think he's made mistakes this season they've never felt really like a team that's fully at peace with itself having said that they actually went into that game with leus and two points behind them it was the first time ever that we'd had two teams over 50 points at this stage of a season so look it would be wrong to suggest that this is a vintage Bayern however what leusin have done in any season even against pep guardiola's Bayern these are the kind kind of numbers guardiola's Bayern were putting up you know that it's the the third best points tally in history in the Bundesliga at this stage of a campaign the only two teams to do better were Bayern in two different seasons under Guardiola so that's the kind of level we're talking at so you're absolutely right there's an element of Bayern not being at their best however in terms of points in terms of goals you know they're right up there by in it's just that lusen have been absolutely outstanding and the other thing as well is that they're through to the semi-finals of the dfb paal they are massive favorites to win that now they haven't won that since the 90s eight points clear in the league as we've discussed they've never won the Bundesliga before and into the last 16 of the Europa League up against the cabac team that they've beaten home and away already in the group stage so it's not just the League this has been an utterly remarkable campaign in every competition they've been in and this is so far above what was expected this is a team that would expect if I was thinking about the Premier League for example people have asked me what would you equate it with and people have mentioned Leicester you'll be delighted by that Ben to get men Lester in there again I I don't think it's quite like that personally I actually think it's if if an Posta cogo had had an absolute like flyer at Tottenham and maintain that and they'd won the league I feel like like that a team that would expect to push for top four but actually then makes a massive leap I think it's more like if Tottenham won the Premier Newcastle may be under Kevin Keegan isn't it because leverkus not a tiny club like Leicester remember Keegan's Newcastle had a big lead Leverkusen have now got a big lead if it's exactly like Keegan's Newcastle they'll blow it of course unfortunately well I think the interesting parallel there is that Keegan obviously they brought in Tino aspra and that unbalanced things and they weren't quite the same team and things started falling apart not that that was aspera's fault but that's you know they made that change in terms of lusen there's nothing now that will change the way they play they've got lots of options in the toolbox they can hit you with fast players they can hit you with strong players if you think of the attack I mean adley's been playing there but Patrick schit can play there a bit more of a statuesque and strong sent of forward Bonny face will be back in April I think the only one I I would worry about is if they lost Alex Grimaldo because I think he's Irreplaceable on that leftand side however the really big test here and I don't think it's happened yet is when it really kicks in with this group of players that they can do it they're massive favorites now they've got an eight-point lead that's never been overhauled at this stage of a Bundesliga season but at what point does that group of players think oh no we we're actually favorites here and that's a different type of pressure I think thing I think if you've got that lead and everybody expects you to then go on and do it that's a different type of pressure if they can get through that they'll win it it is uh easier to hunt than be hunted I think which is what those lusan players will will feel all the way through to the end of this season well look plenty of questions that you raised there Kevin and Ben has as well which we need to throw to for Brito Romano our transfer Guru which is just what we do now I caught up with him a little little bit earlier and asked him many of those questions Fabo thanks as ever for joining us we're talking about jabby Alonso and what his future might be do do we just ask a simple question is he going to Bayern is he going to Liverpool good question I think he doesn't know at the moment so imagine me it's too early to know where he's going but I really think he going to be really important month I would say because the discussion the internal discussion that these two these two Club clubs have already started the advantage for Bayern is that they already have a structor in place so max seber joined the club as new director to work together with Christopher thr so they already have clear ideas of what they want people going to present the project to Chad Alonso and to the other candidates they have in the list for Liverpool from what I'm hearing the priority is to hire a new director as soon as possible it will probably be in March and then to start the conversations with a new manager but the interest from Liverpool is absolutely there it's about the owners it's about other people in the club they still want chabby alono as priority Target but both clubs Liverpool and Bayern have Alternatives have other candidates because they know that is going to be not an easy fight at all and then let me say that from what I'm hearing also chabby alono himself wants to take some time because he wants to focus on Bayern lusen they're doing something historical he doesn't want any distraction so he knows about these interest obviously but at the moment he doesn't want to sign anything or to agree with any club in February in March because his Focus remains on Bayer lus and is there even a possibility that he could stay at Bayer lusen for another year and then maybe pick up the Real Madrid job which is going to be vacant in 2025 that's the hope of some people some important people at Bayer lusen they really hope so they still believe there is a chance for chabil Lono to stay at the club but my opinion speaking to some sources is that is going to be very difficult so I think it's a very small percentage to see chab alono staying at Bayern lusen in the