Who is Victor Osimhen, The Biggest Transfer Prize this Summer?
Angus and Ben are joined by Guillem Balague and Fabrizio Romano to delve into Victor Osimhen's talent, future, price tag and personality. Fellow Nigerian, Mikel John Obi makes a brief appearance to talk about Osimhen's chances of landing at Chelsea. Plus, the very latest on Kylian Mbappe's negotiations with Real Madrid.
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hello and welcome to the debrief I'm anger Scott one name that's been a part of any transfer conversation over the last eight months or so has been Victor Osan the 25-year-old Nigerian is leaving Napoli that we seem to know for sure but where is he heading fabrio Romano will be with us shortly to give us his View and also gam bagay will be dropping in with his understanding of the aiman deal fellow Nigerian Mikel John Obi gives us his thoughts as well in fact there aren't many top quality number NES knocking around so it seems Osan can more less name his price when it comes to his transfer it's a bit like Ben Jacobs not many like him very very expensive Ben how are you very well indeed very kind of you to say that I can name my price putting in the request for the pay rise then as long as I'm not paying Ben you know you can ask whatever you like uh Ben before we get on to Victor Osman look one of he one of the the clubs that are targeting him is Chelsea he's going to cost a lot of money Chelsea have recently uh revealed the figures uh that surround the club uh and a lot of people have seen them with open eyes a gast can you put some light on on what it all means yeah I think a lot of Chelsea fans will be looking for Top Line The Cliff Notes vers if you like for those of you that went to school in the '90s and Beyond and there's a 50-page document on company's house um there's really three key figures one is the parent company of Chelsea and Strasburg blueco 20122 and their net losses after tax 653 million between March 2022 and June the 30th 2023 and that's a massive number that's driven by investment in particular in Chelsea's men's and women's playing squads but there's other things like the 70 odd million pounds that was paid to buy Strasburg the other two numbers that are more worrying maybe for Chelsea fans and certainly more specific Chelsea's pre-tax And I stress pre-tax because the other one was post tax losses in the past 12 months 90.1 million compared to the previous year 121.4 million so what does this mean well number one Chelsea are still in current cycle within profit and sustainability and financial fair play and that's really important to note because when we see these numbers it's very easy to be alarmed and think they're new but of course the Premier League chose to charge Everton and Nottingham Forest and not Chelsea so up until now Chelsea are okay but when they add their plans including Victor Osan can they stay within the allowable per cycle 105 million pound losses or do they have to reain things in a little bit and part of the answer to that question will be how many players can they sell and if not enough then it could coupled with the lack of European football impact the next window so what we're seeing is Chelsea's Reliance on player Trading that is really apparent Within These numbers because if you look at the year-by-year losses and the two years that Clear Lake Bley have been in charge of Chelsea the loss for example for the last 12 months would have been over 230 million instead of 90 million if not the significant player sales and reduction of the wage Bill and this tells you that Chelsea's model is all about trading so so there's no cause for alarm and if they didn't want an oan and others for hundreds of million they could probably relax a little bit because they are still quite comfortably within profit and sustainability but less comfortably heading into the next financial year and across the cycle if one they don't get European football and two they do want to spend a 100 plus million on a player like Victor o there are two things from this Ben that sort of iuce one of them is it doesn't give a sense of continuity if you are forever a club that is basically trying to wheel and deal uh trying to be bring in big names and then you have to sell a load of players and also during the summer there may be a change of manager so this is this is a very difficult time for Chelsea and for the owners because they are still unsure about which way this club is going yeah and I think when you you buy a club for 2.5 billion and then you pledge over 1.7 billion in investment on top of that and you revamp everything and you change the club structurally and you build a multic club model it's all moving very fast and that will come with operational costs logistic costs player transfer costs and wages and so on so maybe the level of spending is not reflective of where Chelsea will be in a season or two because as you say the key to success is stability you can't keep spending and spending and spending and you don't want to keep spending and spending and spending because if you do your revamp so Chelsea are in a four window plan and to some extent we have to respect that because if they're planning for four windows and the summer will be the fourth window we have to understand where they are at the end of that window to some extent orbe it needing to see progress as well between now and then but at the end of that if they get who they want in each area then if they get to fifth sixth seventh Windows beyond that number four and still need to spend 200 300 million then it might be very exciting and it might make a lot of headlines but it's neither sustainable nor a strong indication of actually doing smart business and if you look at Liverpool they revamped they got a lot of success now they're revamping again particularly their Midfield and they'll hope that they get a lot of success if you look at Arsenal they brought in De and rice Kai havs yurian Timber big spend and I would expect them to go for a striker in the summer and then it to level off whereas Chelsea and Manchester United Manchester United more so and Chelsea only under clear late b and a bit lesser under Abramovic have had a bit of a habit perhaps of spending in quite a dramatic way and not necessarily the most structured way and gaining a lot of instant headlines and Buzz and excitement but if you keep needing somebody then it means that who you've bought is not necessarily right for your business and in this case your football team so I think that Chelsea will want a period where they don't need to spend but that's not this summer so the balance right now with the finances is can they do one more big window within the confines of profit and sustainability and if they don't make European football it might be tight unless they cash in on Conor Gallagher for 60 million they get 35 million for romaly Lukaku 35 million for Ian Matson a thief for Trevor Chala they may need a 100 million in player sales if they choose to have that big two or 300 million window but we should make it clear that one issue is are they within profit and sustainability and financial fair play yes two if they don't spend 300 odd million are they fine under profit and sustainability within the next cycle and financial year probably yes as well but the need to spend big means that they become closer to the margins and that's where maybe around a 100 million in player sales might be necessary but you know you're talking about that that that sort of player and you you've gone through three or four players Ben that may may give them uh over a 100 million okay but you're looking for one aiman the disruption and how much work has to go in into recreating a squad that you you y you talk about Arsenal um reworking it Liverpool reworking their squad we saw Sir Alex Ferguson do it three or four times maybe more times during his tenure four or five times recreating strog but within sustainable levels it seems for so long that certainly you know prior uh to the current ownership you go back to Abramovic there was always change there was always disruption there is there the sense with you that Chelsea and the new ownership want this summer to be the last big sort of purch purchasing and sale period and then they settle down and run a different uh sort of program uh and a business plan to make this club work well it won't be different in the sense that the whole model is reliant on player trading and that was also the case under Abramovic Chelsea have always had a strong Academy the players that come through great the players that don't succeed sellable assets and if you're going to have a multic club model and you're going to lean a bit on the philosophy of Red Bull there's always going to be this element of your successes go to Chelsea and your so-called failures are marketable and can either drop down to a Strasburg or be sold and that reflects well on the books and that's the blueco 202 model whereas Chelsea have to adapt a little bit because of Premier League profit and sustainability and also the need for Success now as well it can't keep being the PW like progress and project and patience and who knows maybe the PE of Po chatino won't last as well but this is the sort of challenge within Chelsea's model compared to blueco 2022 on paper for the latter it works because it's strategic it's long-term it's multic club and it can sustain itself as long as you get a steady stream of talent and the transfer fees are investments not expenses and the wages are low and if they work they work and if they don't work you sell them and you still make a profit that model works but with Chelsea specifically the model maybe requires experience in fact it definitely does it requires instant success it requires a Serial winning mentality it requires a manager that's going to last it requires an investment in data it requires more research and funding on the medical side of things and It ultimately requires a culture and a unity and if you don't have stability you're very unlikely at Chelsea to have success I think it worked for Roman Abramovic because whenever he made a change who did a new manager inherit the likes of DDA Drogba or John Terry or Claude Mele or Mel johobi who we hear from in a moment whereas now if Abramovic had made the same changes and those managers had come in and they' inherited Milo mudrick Nonni mad these types of players as high of ceilings as they've got they can't just switch it on instantly and consistently so I think Chelsea have laid the groundwork which means if they have a big window and they sign a Victor Osan or a Benjamin cesco or another Elite Striker they will back off the spending and that's because they've done a lot of spending away from the first team Kendry Pyers is one example so these players are going to come through and they're going to become Chelsea players or multic Club players in the seasons that follow whereas now they're not really being spoken about in any great degree and they're certainly not cob week in week out either due to their age or because one or two of them are out on loan somewhere so the groundworks been laid you can see what Chelsea are trying to do but the challenge when you spend 250 to 350 million in every single window or almost every single window bar last January is if it doesn't work despite good intentions and a strong strategy and data pointing in the right direction it's very hard to recoup imagine if Enzo or mudri hypothetically doesn't work out you probably going to get half the fee back and suddenly they are lot on the book or they're stuck at the club because they don't want to leave and they're on long-term contracts so this is the kind of challenge but I sense that after this summer window Chelsea will be in a position where they can no longer talk about project and patience and time because they've had their four Windows they've used their four windows so if poino is still there the first 10 games of next season are going to have to provide something in instant otherwise people are going to start to question whether there's a sort of pot of gold at the end of this Project's rainbow okay uh hold fire there a moment Ben we have still got forito Romano to come we'll be hearing from gam balag as well plenty more on Victor aiman too because remember he is effectively Chelsea's number one target during the summer and one man closer to aiman the most and that's fellow Countryman m John Obi and he certainly wants the striker at Stanford bridge in the summer well I have to ask you about that of course the podcast naturally has a lot of Chelsea followers Victor Osman to Chelsea genuine possibility or just media hype I think there's genuine interest between both I think he loves the club he wants to come to the club uh obviously he wants to follow my footstep as a Nigerian player who's played for Chelsea I think Victor Moses as well Zimbabwe not a la force and he's looked at that London as well fantastic city um instead of going to Liverpool or places like that you want to live in London uh but he also has a lot of interest like Paris and German man united but uh I'm still pushing sending messages and trying to make sure that you know he doesn't expect too much just narrow your mind in one clock the blues so you are genuinely acting as agent Mikel I am definitely I am pushing him uh but I hope he comes to the club because he will bring so much to to the club I think one thing we lack anybody who watch the final on Sunday will see that one thing we are lacking is scoring goals we need that Striker who will score goals and that's what Victor will give you he's not the most skillful guy but goals definitely guaranteed I mean if if he could get us 20 goal per season 25 who knows that's what alien Holland does that's why he's one of the best he's not really there for link ups and all that get the ball in the box and he will finish and that's something that uh I definitely Victor Sim will give us uh so let's hope it works out and uh you know he comes to to Chelsea and become a legend Ben there fascinating conversation you had with him out in doart last week we'd love to hear from you everyone who's listening to the debrief do get in touch with us via our comments SE comments section um please we'd love to hear your questions that Ben and I may be able to answer shortly um but what he's saying Ben I know there was a an element of humor uh and a sort of Rye raise of the eye Brow how do you think actually Mikel might be able to affect anything and how close might Osan be thinking that that Chelsea is where he wants to end up it's really Mikel and also did Drogba and I think I think Osan would relish the opportunity to replicate DDA drogba's Legacy at Chelsea and Forge one of his own so that's there in the back of the Mind what we should say taking a step back is that Victor Osan has decided he's leaving Napoli and I'm told the Premier League is his preferred destination which might be good news for Chelsea and Arsenal and some even say Manchester United but it's hard to understand how Manchester United would find that kind of package because you're talking about the fee I'll come on to that in a moment and also 250,000 PS of wages each week and maybe some will have listened to our financial chat on Chelsea and make the same point how are they going to get Osan without European football but I think the whole reason Chelsea want to offload about 100 million in outgoings is to make sure if they can get Osan there's no issue financially there's cheaper options though in terms of release Clauses like Benjamin cesco with Osan though the number is kind kind of non-negotiable because that's how Napoli works so when Osan extended at Napoli it was an extension with a view to leaving but the release Clause baked in is relatively rigid maybe there's an opportunity to go higher with a different structure but not lower or significantly so and that number is 100 million pounds plus some even say it's as high as 130 million Euros which would be about 115 million pounds and as a consequence Chelsea are gonna have to think about this deal in terms of value in terms of finances and in terms of profile as well and I think if you're judging it in football terms the move makes a lot of sense if you're looking at the financial side can they get a defender or a midfielder plus another Striker for the same price and if you're looking at Value it will all just depend on how Osan grow right now his numbers would suggest he'll be box office in the Premier League but will that be the case when he makes the transition or will he need some time to adapt I think Chelsea feel like if he moves to the Premier League they stand a very strong chance but I wouldn't rule out PSG who have oan high on the list of their targets for replacing in inverted commas even though they're not like for like Killian and ba yeah yeah there are lots of people I think who would like Victor Ros and we'll see um as time progress is where the Chelsea are at the front of that queue with the with the pressure that Didier Drogba and Mel johobi might be able to put on him I'm gonna get to a question before we hear from Fabrizio Romano Fabrizio uh we will hear from very very shortly but let's go to this Ben first up Patrick Barrett Williams do you think it will be a relatively quick transfer with aiman or a drawn out Saga and who else is interested well you've answered part of that because we know that PSG are and there are I would assume many other sides that are interested in him quick and slow and I know that sounds like I'm sitting on the fence but there's two different explanations the quick part is that I expect oan to make up his mind quickly and any interested Suitor that thinks it's financially feasible will know that there'll be competition and will want to make their pitch very quickly and not leave any uncertainty dragging out over the summer so that's the fast part the slow part is again pns which I'm sure makes people listening groan and put their head in their hands because there is this cut off date of course for profit and sustainability and clubs therefore that want to spend big not just on Osan because as we'll come on to a bit later there'll be a mad mer around of movement of many top Strikers so anybody wanting to invest in that minimum 50 maximum 100 plus million Striker and there'll be many of them on the Move May have to wait for outgoing may wait until after the cut off so we may get this situation where is actually Osman who's left sort of hanging because he knows let's just say hypothetically it's Chelsea or PSG and more so Chelsea because PSG are saving a lot of money by mbappe leaving and Osman may say okay I'm happy enough to sign and Chelsea say we can proceed but potentially they need to wait for that outgoing first before it actually gets over the line and if you remember to Barcelona's detriment that was kind of what they were saying to liel Messi just wait and wait and wait and we'll get it done and we'll find the financial means and it dragged on and eventually Messi lost confidence and ended up going to into my Ami instead so that's a little bit of a warning sign but I think with oan it's a long summer window and if he has to wait he'll be prepared to wait especially if he's already pred decided before the window opens where he wants to end up well we'll be talking a little bit more about lonel Messi in just a while because Gan bagay is going to enjoy us join us his new book about lonel Messi the only official biography that Messi has done is now been launched in the United States and we're talking to GM very shortly but first let's get hold of our transfer Guru fabrio romano and get him on the question of Victor aiman for Brit here thanks as ever for joining us let's start with Victor oan then when he says made up his mind about what's next does that mean he's set on one specific club or League or just that he's definitely leaving Napoli no I can guarantee that when he said that he just meant that he's going to leave Napoli uh he's planning to leave Napoli so he expects to get this move in the summer transfer window but not yet with a specific club I'm 100% sure of what I saying speaking to sources very close to to Victor so in this moment I can guara