8 Football Fans v The HARDEST Premier League Debates | Fans² Ep.5

BBC Football

8 passionate football supporters clash over three divisive claims in English football! Has modern football become far too tactical and system-obsessed? Is Mo Salah truly the best Premier League signing in history? And should the January transfer window be scrapped entirely? 00:00 - Intro & Yellow/Red Card rules 00:41 - Statement 1: The modern game is too tactical 07:22 - Statement 2: Mo Salah is the best Premier League signing of all time 14:49 - Statement 3: The winter transfer window should be scrapped Follow more on the BBC Sport app, iPlayer and Sounds. ============= Find us here: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BBCMOTD X: https://x.com/BBCMOTD Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bbcfootball/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bbcsport bbcfootball Follow more on the BBC Sport app, iPlayer and Sounds. ============= Find us here: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BBCMOTD X: https://x.com/BBCMOTD Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bbcfootball/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bbcsport bbcfootball

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Maybe it's my age talking. >> Are we going back to the 50s? >> Was he not helping the team score goals? Was he not Was he not pivotal? He's killed your team. >> Please don't. Please just don't. >> How many trophies have you lot? >> Many Sussex Senior Cups. Thank you very much. >> One polarizing opinion go into the book. It's harsh, but it was a bit reckless. Eight supporters ready to tear it apart. Why are you smiling Crystal Palace fan? [laughter] >> As always, BBC Sports Vo is in my ear checking everything that this lot say. Any dodgy stats, you get a yellow card. Get two and you're out of it. This is fan squared, guys. A very big statement this one. The modern game is too tactical. Agree or disagree? Les, you were the only one to move. Talk me through it. Why have you made the decision to agree? The game now is too based on systems and rigid systems. So [music] players aren't really allowed to express themselves so much. They all become part of a system. Some managers try and fit different. You had this with Amaru I think where you know he had a system. He didn't have the players but he still tried to play it. We had it with Roberto Martinez. He tried to play his really slow door passing system just didn't work. And I just think that excitement's gone out of the games. There's still players who get you off your seat. I just think it's a little bit too tactics based, a little bit too stats obsessed. It's just not the same. >> I think for a manager to give up a player or to go out of their tactic, they need a player that deserves it, that can spark spark a move. For example, you look at Real Madrid. They they they're players that can go out of this tactics and breathe just goals. They they they breathe excitement across the Premier League. I don't think we have that anymore. You had used to have it with Hazard, Rooney, Henry. You had these players that you could give it everything to them and you could just see magic. We don't have that anymore. >> Do [music] you not think though that these players that have that extreme individual quality can turn a game on its head are being weaned out. [music] I think as these players are coming up they are having to fit into that system and just that system. So that flare is being like taken [music] out of them early doors so they fit in the way the manager wants them to play. I play non-league football [music] and the amount of teams now that are non-league football that try and play out from the back and trying to play try and play [laughter] and we haven't got Ryan Sher we haven't got Ryan Sheries we've got Ryan Smiths and [laughter] Brad Thomas [music] and people like that and they can't do that. So the the fact that the tactics in the modern game are [music] dripping down to that and that's ruining that level. >> I agree with some point of like the tactics taken away from like the creativity of the players because I'm a creative player. I'm not going to listen to every single manager telling me, "Oh, sorry. You have to do this, this, this." I'm going to bring my flare into the game, but I also understand why it's there. So, that's why I don't think it's doing too much. >> I feel like clubs have identities behind them. Uh, a style of football that that club should stick by. It's what the club's known for. Yes, tactics are important. If you want to win certain games, you adjust for the certain game. And I feel like football in general is going into that direction where everything is so [music] diluted into tactics. I feel like everyone's trying to play that pep style of football and it's sort of showing because everyone sort of plays the same. Also, with managers now, it [music] feels like when you look at two teams going up against each other, it feels like the managers have become main characters. >> Football's about moments. If you think about your favorite moments over the last [music] 10, 20, 30, 40 years. It's about those moments. It's about creative goals. It's [music] about creative assists. It's about those bits of magic. Halime as it stands it is 53 to those that agree. Is anybody >> Yep. Yes. Finish the [laughter] sentence. Yeah. >> Glory on the go. >> I do want to go to that side. Like I understand that like tactics are doing too much but I think they're the backbone of everything. >> So we have had one move during Halime. Still a lot of work to do but let's bring it [music] up to date. Let me start the second half and then I'm coming straight to you. S. Let's go. Let's bring it to the last season. Arsenal a very tactical team with [music] some very questionable tactics, but we won the league. Is that why you're standing on that side? >> Tactics breed success in a way. We started outto first two seasons. I think it's the best football I've seen us play in over a decade. Free flowing, beating teams, but you can't get over the line. He had to change something and yes, it's not the most exciting football, but it it it brings it brought success. Then I look at Pep Guardiola after Liverpool won the league. He had to change it up. What did he do? He went to a false nine. He had to change his tactics to suit the league as well as his system. >> Success can't just come from heavy tactics. [music] Sometimes these players need the license to do what they think is best because they're the players on the pitch. [music] There's times where players need to improvise. >> When you look at Sir Alex Ferguson, get the ball to Van Persie. If you don't get the ball to Van Persie, you don't play. Like that was what [music] he did. His man management is a huge reason as to why he got the best out of his players. Panchchelotti at Real Madrid is [music] another one. Zenadine Zidani, Real Madrid is another one. You had superstars and you get the best out of them players. But it also depends on where you want football to be. If you want it really entertaining, then you're just going to go free flowing football to whatever. If you want to go and win the leagues, it's going to literally be where you score one goal and then you literally sit back or you make sure your defense, like you said, defense wins the leagues, but then the goal scorers win the games. >> I think everyone thinks Spain deserve to win the World Cup. Did they best play the best football? No. Their starting 11 rarely put in a good performance, but Spain, I think, showed that when you're tactically um set up in a way where you can't get penetrated from, but you can also provide on the counterattack, you have to do it to win. And like at the end of the game, this this whole the whole point of football is to win. >> And I disagree with that. What is success to you? Because if it's winning trophies, then fine, right? Cuz I think it's all about perspective because for Brighton fans, we have gone right down to the doldrums where we nearly ceased to exist as a football club. We've gone right from there in a very short space of time right up to here where we're now in Europe. That for us is a huge amount of success. >> I've just [music] got a question for everyone. Does anyone get excited to sit down and and stick a Man City game on? Like is that the team that everyone gets most excited about? >> Once upon a time, yeah, but not anymore. Not anymore. >> That is what I'm saying. Taking my red tented glasses off and I would I don't like to say it. [music] Liverpool was so much more entertaining to watch in my opinion under clock than what City has been overall under Pep. Yet Pep has won [music] more. He won that battle. So it depends what you want as a footballing fan. Do you want the entertainment or do you want the trophy? >> What we're talking about is a very fine [music] line because we've had the Maverick conversation. We've had the Dil Fuente at the World Cup who without him Spain wouldn't have won the World Cup and the tactics are so important. I think in the morning game is slightly over the the fine line of being too tactical. >> As it stands it is 62. Is there anybody that think they might be moving? >> I'm going. >> Off you go. >> I've had an epiphany. >> No. Look. Yeah. Go. >> Yeah. I've >> go whichever way you want. >> Wow. Period. Thank you. That was twice. It's gone bad. >> No. I appreciate it. Return. >> I think it's analysis, not tactic. The tactics aren't the problem. You get a match package now and they pick out every single instance, every single thing [music] the manager has done. I think it's too much analysis, not the tactics. >> The game ends 5-3. We agree. The Premier League is too tactical. Guys, this is your statement. Mo Salah is the best Premier League signing of all time. Agree or disagree? [music] >> Period. Perhap [laughter] >> of course, obviously. [laughter] >> Well, I think I understand [music] why you two are in agreement with that statement, but I would like to go to the other side first. Les, let me come to you [music] an everonian. [laughter] >> So I think I understand why you're on that side. >> I mean, if I'd agree with this statement, I wouldn't be able [music] to go back home. So the first one I've got is Eric Canarov. He was pretty much a catalyst for like everything that came after So United had what 20 years of dominance. I got no joy out of this. He won the Premier League, won the [music] double, won the double in the season after, and last season he won the Premier League. >> I've gone for obviously Thierry Henry [music] as the best transfer in the Premier League history. I think he went for like it was like around 11 million from Juventus was it? And obviously he's the greatest player [music] that the Premier League has ever seen and that is a fact. >> It's not a fact. >> A Liverpool fan. S will come to you first. >> How many times have you won the Champions League? >> None. >> When was the last time you won it? Yeah, last year. But before that, when? [music] Okay, cool. Um, yeah, that's it. That's all I got to say. >> The only way you can argue against MoSalah is if you argue about him on a subjective point of view. You're watching a player that's efficiency. He scored a goal in the Champions League final to win us the Champions League. Big Gay Moalah against the big six Super Sunday. He's killed your team. >> Please don't [laughter] please Old Trafford. He's killed Arsenal. He's like this guy is a giant destroyer. I wouldn't class him as the best signing because Cristiano Ronaldo does exist. He's won more Premier Leagues. Salah's been there eight years, only won two Premier League titles. Ronaldo's won three and he's been at he was at United for I think five, six years. >> There was also great players on the team. So, it wasn't just him. It was other people and he was there. He wasn't carrying no one. >> A lot of these guys have already talked about some of the better players. Maybe it's my age talking. >> Are we going back to the 50s? >> That is a book. >> You're on thin ass. That's an orange. >> I'll take that. >> If we'd have chosen Henri for example, I think this would be quite split. I can imagine that some of us would be over that side. But because it's Salah, it's very interesting how there's >> But look at the teams. >> Look at the teams over there. Look at the haters on Liverpool fans. It's crazy. >> I don't hate Liverpool. >> We look at Okay, let's [laughter] ask the Everton fan. >> Listen, it's not our fault. The guy gave you PTSD. Like, you're on that side for a reason. And it's sort of like, we go back to the Ronaldo point. He wasn't there long enough. Salah spent 9 years at Liverpool. >> You're talking about MoSalah being in the Premier League for [music] longer than Cristiano Ronaldo and yet Cristiano Ronaldo still won more Premier League titles. You're talking about the Premier League with [music] MoSalah and his impact. But when Eric Hansar came in, we haven't won a major joke in 26 years either. Like there is [music] big arguments for these players. >> My top three for the Premier League history player-wise is Henri, Ronaldo, and Kevin De Bruyne. I would even put Rooney above Salah. Also, which came from Everton to United, I don't think Salah's even [music] top two. >> That's Halime. Is anybody thinking about it? >> No. [laughter] >> You my gone. Rooney is the case for me. Um especially after listening to the sand deepep it just yeah rebrought [music] that to my to my attention and you're right you know potentially if we're going back over time [music] you guys live from 2017 you are literally [laughter] there you don't believe in anything >> how many trophies have you got one >> before things [laughter] we kick off in the tunnel let's get back on the pitch and are are we ready for the second half of course >> you've got a lot of work to do by the way over there >> second half begins S what about Mo Salah makes him the most [music] exciting valuewise? He's the He is the best signing of the Premier League era. >> You know what? I'm a footballer myself. I'm a winger and a striker. Seeing what he can do, not just like scoring the goals, but creating it as well. Like you said previously, when he's on the ball, you're excited. >> De Bruyne did that. So is that then? >> Yeah, but I'm not talking about De Bruyne right now. I'm talking about Mozilla. >> Do you think he's a Do you think he's a better footballer than Ronaldo >> overall? No. So then talking him up as a player doesn't really >> but I think I think the squad that United had when Ronaldo was there [music] >> was left winger he was arguably the best left wing in the world right right or wrong was he not helping the team score goals was he not was he not pivotal >> an assist >> was for the false n genesis was he not was he not >> he wasn't the creator it was it was coming from him >> how do you score a goal you have >> you're not suggesting here that Moalah did this alone did you not here. I said assist. I said a sister. >> You had an unreal squad and also you had an unreal manager as well in Jurgen Klopp. I think it's all based on the manager tactics and the team. It was all built on a unit, not an individual player. There's clear evidence showing him drag our team and also be part of a good team. This is a man that can do both. What he does is beyond what just happens on the pitch. We're looking at value for the signing. This guy has changed the culture at the club. the the players talk about in interviews how much more motivated they are because he's always the first in and always the last out when it comes to like going to the gym and [music] training and whatnot. He changed the culture like you say at Liverpool, he he brought that success with him. Wayne Rooney [music] was different when he went to United. I'm I'm still pretty sore about that. Although United stands for like 20. >> Let me just interject there. Whilst MoSalah is the fourth highest goal [music] scorer in the Premier League, >> Rooney second. >> One second. We're going to Ver. >> Oh, this could be a high challenge here. Wayne Rooney with 208 goals is third >> one place above do go into the book. >> He was a generational talent. He won everything with United, didn't he? I think he'd won two trophies since he's gone. Now, that shows a big drop off since he's left. United have been on a bit of a downward curve. I don't think anyone could deny that. So, that's the impact he had of that club as well. Everything I've heard from you lot is correct. However, you're all going on about team achievements. It's Premier Leagues. How many Premier Leagues does this person want? How many Premier Leagues does this person want? We're looking at the individual itself. When you look at the individual awards, MoSalah stacks up against all of them and he rises above. When it comes to goals [music] scored, assists, he's in the top 10 for both. His worth is shown as the individual himself. That 24-25 [music] season, we will never ever see a carry job like that again for a Premier League title. >> Get in. >> What a way to finish. A very good statement, by the way. Is anybody willing [music] to make a move? Well, that last statement just made me want to move back over. >> They they should move over here. Really? Come on. >> Come on. Night is probably the most hated club in England and yet we've got all the We've got a Leads fan here. I mean, come on. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> If it was Wilfrid Zahar getting considered the best player of all time, I might be over there. So, I understand your point. >> I heard they're good mates actually. [laughter] >> It seems like absolutely nobody is going to move [music] from their position. So the final score line is 62. I'm afraid you are not able to convince them. We disagree. Mo Salah is [music] not the best Premier League signing of all time. Who knows? You let us know. Guys, this is your statement. The winter transfer window should be scrapped. [music] Agree or disagree? So just stand there. >> A lot of movement. Isan, I think I know why you are there. One of your biggest transfer signers happened in January. Virgil van Djk. >> Is that why? >> Arguably the best center back of all time in the Premier League. Virgil [music] van Djk joined us in the January transfer window. Uh I've seen a lot of people laughing, but >> we need you to stop saying best center back in the Premier League. >> I said arguably. Yeah. It's just an opportunity for teams to strengthen their um their teams alongside if there's any injuries that might occur. It's world's smallest violin by the way for a club with the resources of Liverpool need to strengthen because they've not got the squad depth. I think it just benefits the big clubs. >> You have these smaller clubs in the Prem like [music] ourselves. You got like Bournemouth for example whose best player was Semeno got taken off them went to City. Bournemouth have got rid of their star player. And because they've got rid [music] of their star player, they might have been a few more spaces higher in the league. I know it's tough to replace a mana, but it'd be tough to replace a manua in the summer. Surely you have a plan in [music] place for the fact that he is going to move at some point. I think that it doesn't just appeal to the big teams because if you're a leads or a palace [music] or whoever, you can still go and strengthen your squad. I think actually it does benefit the smaller clubs too [music] because of course there are those moments when smaller clubs will come in. Why are you smiling Crystal Palace fan? There [laughter] are there are the smaller clubs that will come in and they will have opportunities and it breaks the season up and it can help reverse a season too. Every club has that opportunity and if they are struggling you will then be able to go out and branch out and find certain players. >> I was on the fence with this question right Bruno [music] Fernandez who's been Manchester United's best player post Fergie. He came in January [music] and we would not have signed him if we didn't have the injuries that we had at the time. I don't think if that window happens we don't have Bruno Fernandez playing for Football's too unpredictable. So, for example, the 2021 season for Liverpool, we had Virgil Van Dak go down. We had [music] uh Matip go down and Joe Gomez all go down. After that, we decided to play Henderson and Fabinho as center backs, too. They both also went down. At that point, we have no one to play center back. So, we've gone into the January transfer window. These sort of things happen. >> The thing is, though, no, if you've got the resources to do that, that's fine. You can go out and you can you can do that. Don't you think it would make a much better competition if you had to have your squad for the start of the season and that's your squad to go with the rest of the season? I think it >> would make a more boring league. >> You're watching football [music] for entertainment at the end of the day and you can get a twist and a spin out of a January transfer window that momentum can