Wilshere: Arsenal at 16, Injury Setbacks & Facing Messi’s Barcelona | Stick to Football EP 152

The Overlap

Wilshere on managing Luton, his Arsenal years and Max Dowman's talent

In this Stick to Football interview, Jack Wilshere discusses his move from Arsenal's academy into management at Luton, the realities of League One, his injuries and the Barcelona match, and the contrast between Arsène Wenger and Mikel Arteta. The through-line is that he prioritises winning and adaptation, believes Arsenal fell behind in preparation in Wenger's later years, wants a better balance in academy load management, and rates Max Dowman's talent and Arteta's detail-driven standards very highly.

Jack Wilshere joins Gary Neville, Roy Keane, Jamie Carragher, Ian Wright and Jill Scott on Stick to Football, brought to you by Disney+. From making his Arsenal debut at 16 to taking on Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, Jack looks back on his breakthrough and that unforgettable Barcelona night. He opens up on the injuries that shaped his career, Arsène Wenger’s influence and what he learned from Eddie Howe and Mikel Arteta. Now in management at Luton, Jack shares the challenges of life in the dugout and explains why Max Dowman is a talent unlike anything he’s seen before. If you want more Wayne Rooney - then watch The Real Rooneys, a Hulu Original series, new and exclusive on Disney+. © 2026 Disney and its related entities. 18+. Subscription required. This episode is sponsored by Super 6. Visit super6.skysports.com for your chance to win. Terms and conditions apply: https://super6.skysports.com/terms 00:00 - Intro 04:48 - Luton Management 25:07 - Managerial Influences 31:17 - Arsenal Debut at 16 42:03 - Viral Team Talk 47:56 - Injuries 55:09 - Barcelona Night Memories 01:05:04 - Max Dowman Is a Special Talent 01:07:27 - Arteta Process and Standards 01:13:01 - Quickfire Questions SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL HERE https://www.youtube.com/c/theoverlap STICK TO UNITED WITH WAYNE ROONEY ON THE UNITED STAND https://www.youtube.com/@UnitedStand/videos JOIN THE OVERLAP WHATSAPP CHANNEL HERE https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VbC3WQvAYlUCoCqZgA45 SUBSCRIBE TO THE OVERLAP BREAKDOWN CHANNEL HERE https://www.youtube.com/@TheOverlapBreakdown SUBSCRIBE TO THE OVERLAP NEWSLETTER https://substack.com/@theoverlapnewsletter SUBSCRIBE TO IT WAS WHAT IT WAS PATREON Join here ➡️ www.patreon.com/itwas SUBSCRIBE TO STICK TO RUGBY HERE https://www.youtube.com/@TheOverlapRugby SUBSCRIBE TO THE STICK TO CRICKET CHANNEL HERE https://www.youtube.com/@TheOverlapCricket?subconfirmation=1 FOLLOW STICK TO CRICKET ON SOCIAL 👇🏏 Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sticktocricket/ Facebook -…

Transcript

Are you going shooting this afternoon? >> No, it's just this is a >> He's going shooting. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> he's going to always >> Thank you, my love. >> Gary does. Yeah, but Gary's just That's what you do. It's bullying. Really? >> That man wants feeasant. [laughter] >> Yes, Jack. >> My guy. >> You're something the greatest, >> Jack. >> J. >> I thought Hello, Gary. >> Hello, Gary. [laughter] >> How are you, mate? Hello Gary. >> I'm great for seeing you. >> I miss working with you. >> Do you? >> When did you work one for? >> Worked with him for a few years. >> Where do I say it? >> Was it England? >> That one there with England. Eh, >> this is weird. And I'm not just No. >> Do you watch it? >> I'm [laughter] not I'm not just saying this. >> Do you watch it, Jack? >> Yeah. I'm not just saying this, right? We got on well, didn't we? >> We did. Yeah. >> You got on well. >> What did you like about him, Jack? Was he just like cuz he's honestly >> straight with each other >> at that point. And listen, I love Roy and and the way he work. >> Cheers. Thanks. That's nice. Oh, not Roy Hudson. Roy. All right. I [laughter] love Roy Hodgson and Gary was >> he was modern. He was det like we changed. Do you remember what we did? We went from like Gerard left, Lampard left and we went to four diamond too and I was playing at the base >> the base of diamond. Yeah. >> I was like I've never played there before. And I remember going through clips with pillow. >> Yeah. >> Remember went through clip him. Yeah. >> So we did we got on well >> and you used to little because your range of passing was quite short when it uh >> I enjoyed playing there and then you just played a little bit. Yeah. >> Opened it up a little bit and it was good. >> That down to you. >> Yeah. >> No, it wasn't down to me, but it was down to him. Whose idea was that to put me there? >> Um, I think it would have been you cuz Roy wouldn't have >> I think Roy, to be fair, Roy was I think open to changing and to be fair, I think we just said that it was what we had really, wasn't it? If you think about Jordan and >> runners on the side, didn't you? >> Yeah. We had like sort of Yeah. It was just >> I enjoyed that. We went to Switzerland. Do you remember? >> That was a good That was a good performance. >> Yeah. >> Very good. That was the first time we played it. >> Yeah. >> We had to win that game. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then Stevie's gone. Lamps had gone. >> Were you one of them ones that jumped in that river at night? Drinking >> jumping. >> Right. So, no word of a lie. Right. We >> win. We're winning in Switzerland. >> No. This is mad. And this is a lake. Surely. Was it a lake in Switzerland? >> No. No. Roy, I'm telling you. Right. This is We're playing in Basel. Is it Basel? >> There's a river in Basel where every all the Swiss jump on and they go down the river. >> Off the bridge. They jump off the bridge and they go down the river. Right. We let them have a drink after the game because we have to stay. You're not allowed to fly back. Um Swiss sort of air traffic control closed at 10:00. So we had to stay over and we let the lads have a drink cuz it was a big win. It was to be fair on. It's not professional, is it? >> So anyway, let him have a drink. >> It always ends up in tears. >> We were on the terrace. >> It almost It's never ever not end. >> It never came out this story, did it? We were on the terrace >> until now. Until now. [laughter] We were on the terrace and basically we went in at the coaches. We went to bed. Anyway, we find I find out the morning after the the lads have jumped off the bridge off the bridge >> into the river and they've gone this thing down the river at night. Where what? How is that a floating river? Weren't it like going down to work? Brilliant. >> And the England team are floating down a river at basically 2:00 in the morning. >> Jesus. >> No, obviously not. >> Who who who jumped? You who who jumped with you? >> I can't name names. >> No. >> However, it was You were there, weren't you? I was watching. I was never that it was high. It was quite high. >> It was uh it was Joe Hart's idea. [gasps] [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Slim Joeart. >> You're not naming anyone. You just throw Joe under. >> You know what? EVERYBODY [laughter] >> thinking of them charges at the time. >> There [laughter] was one who didn't do it. >> Who? >> Who? >> You would never have guessed who it was. >> Wazer. Wiser. Wiser. Sat on the balcony with a glass of wine just watching [laughter] like that. Weird. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney Plus. >> Did I read somewhere that you win at like4 6 in the morning? >> Yeah, but that's that's pretty standard, right? >> Yeah, but I I was shocked at that, >> right? [laughter] >> People have said all they [music] all they have to say about you and you get to a point where it's kind of like right you could deal with it. You build resilience to it and yeah, I got to that point quite early. I would say >> Wenger wouldn't come in at all >> into the dressing room. >> No, he wouldn't. No, he be in that like little dot when was it I in that >> they were beating us and they didn't even have a coach. >> He just went and you I bought you here to keep the ball not give it away and then just moved on. [laughter] >> He played in my team at 13. I stood next to him on the sideline and I said look don't [music] get into a jewel like one or two touch move it around picked up the ball. I promise you he dribbled around five players he squared [music] it and we're 3 up. man to my assistant mate. >> Jack, talk to us. I want to start with management. We're going to start with the end. We're going to Sometimes we go back to the beginning, but I want to start at the very end of the management and how that's going for you. You've obviously stepped in. How's it going? >> It's going well. Um, yeah. I mean, I think the one thing that I've learned, you have to love it. You have to love it. It consumes you. You have to have a real deep love for the game. Um, which I do. I loved it, you know, probably because yeah, my career I suffered with injuries and probably didn't have the career I wanted and I always felt like I need to give something back and yeah, from day one. So I retired like on a Sunday on Monday morning I was in at Arsenal with the 18s and I quickly realized that this is something that I need to get better at and work at. Um but I've enjoyed every every step of that. How how speaking to every young manager that comes on and obviously we've had experience from us around the table. You've just come off backto-back defeats. >> Yeah. >> And you've obviously had a postponeed fixture. How how do you what are you like? I mean everybody else is an absolute nightmare. >> No, that's something that hit me hard when I first started. Not not necessarily with the 18s because results doesn't really come into it, but then I went to Norwich and I was an assistant and we lost a lot. And then last season when I when I first took the step of being a manager, that hit me a lot. That hit me a lot. And um yeah, it was something that I had to quickly hit, you know, >> the loss. The losses like >> they last longer. >> You feel you feel like a big responsibility. Um >> yeah, and I always I think we might said it I can't remember where he said it, but Thomas Frank saying about the 24-hour rule. And I remember thinking about that and it it was never 24 hours for me. It lasted longer. So >> what did he say? just >> it was like um a win or a loss. Like if 24 hours you're never too high or 24 hours you're never too low and after that 24 hours you're done. It's you review it and whatever and you move on. And it weren't like that. Weren't like that. And there was there was some context as well because of because of the club and what you'd been through the last two years of losing losing losing and then when you lost a game, you know, the the feeling probably was going into League One that we're going to win every game here and we're going to get out of this league. And that wasn't that wasn't the reality. And um yeah, I felt that a lot. That's something that I worked on in the summer. I'm better now. I bet now like I think when if you're really clear um on why and you review everything I think that helps. I think the people around you help as well. Um and we've been fortunate enough that there's not been many times where we've lost two in a row. Um, you have to bring people back down as well because, you know, you work really hard to get to a place and you win games, win games, win games and then all of a sudden you lose two and it's like you go back and like you got to like reassure people that no, it's fine, we're going to lose games. Like Jamie watches a lot of League One. It's it's crazy. There's a lot of chaos. Like some things you can't control and um yeah, so I'm better at that I would say. >> Just think about when obviously coaching you and watching you play as a football player, you were like complete football. take the ball. Is that your style now as a manager? >> Well, when I first went into the 18s, that was probably the idea I had. Um, what I really loved about the 18s is, yeah, you you got to work with some really good players, but it's probably the other ones, the ones that now are on loan in League 2, on loan in League One, and um because the good ones, they're kind of, you know, it's like they find their way and they're >> miles, >> miles and yeah, you just you're just giving them the right challenge at the right time rather than actually coaching them like how much better you going to make miles at taking the ball and beating someone. Um, so that was probably my idea then, but then I quickly understood that the the job is yeah, first of all, give players to Mikuel, but then to give players a career and I had to understand the other levels and yeah, I like I want to ideally have a team that that can take the ball and dominate the ball because I think that's that's the best way to win games. However, that's not the reality, especially in in League One. Um, we try, but yeah, you have to you have to be able to adapt. You have to have variety 100% in that at that level because yeah ultimately as well what I think is in League One like we've got some really different players. We've got some good players. We've got some really good players that can take the ball. We've got some really good players that are aggressive and and you have to find the right balance for them all. >> What what do you think? You said I I watch a lot of league league one. I have done for the last few years. And when you come from a Premier League background where you play and where you watch probably four or five games over a weekend, >> how it's just it's almost like a shock to me where you you can almost you're not quite sure if you go and watch a game >> who the good team is or supposedly the bad. That's what I find really strange. Whereas when I'm in the Premier League, even if a smaller team can beat a big team, you almost feel like you know how they're going to beat them. they're going to maybe a set piece or the the other the top team have got a lot of possession when you're when I'm watching games in League One you well basically I watch a lot of Wigan some place for Wigan Wigan were bottom of the league a couple of weeks ago went to Sheff went to do a top of the league away from home >> and should have won the game >> but not not in a way of sort of hanging on for dear life and and that probably just summed up >> yeah I think I think we're going >> we're going to in my opinion one of the best teams in the league in terms of how they play and what they want to do I think you have to get the balance right in that league of of playing um because yeah, you play against some teams, you know, we played against Bradford um a couple of weeks ago and and you know, they had 0.2 expected goals, they beat us 1 nil, but they don't care. They don't care if they had if we had 70% possession or what what you have to do is like I think against we played Stevenage, we lost to Stevenage, we lost to Bradford, Steven want absolute chaos like they want to play long balls. So then you have to >> is still playing for Steven. >> Yeah. Yeah. And he wins at every jewel. You put the ball up. [laughter] Um so I think I feel like like with my team and I feel we're going to seem like they want to play, but I feel with my team if we go there and we and we start playing long balls or we start being aggressive like we're going to lose that game. So actually when I when I review that game and I look at it and I go right um we lost the game and if you take them two goals out which one is a foul one Liam Walsh and one is offside we win the game 1 nil. And actually like it weren't a great game. It's League One. Like sometimes a game's going to feel like that. And yeah, like there was some frustration around from from from um from our fans as well that we didn't have enough threat in the game. And but my argument to that would be well if we go there and we turn it into that type of game. Same with Bradford and you have to get the balance right because if you don't win that game it looks terrible and it's like oh you just want to play play. It's not the way. And yeah I just feel like the league is like that. It is like that where I'm I'm I'm stand on the side. and I'm watching a game and I feel right we're in complete control here. Bradford score after 5 minutes and I'm thinking these don't concede like we're going to have the ball and we're going to play around but they're completely fine with that. So yeah, you have to get game management is really really important in that league and probably like in any league trying to find some consistency of performances but especially in that league I think. >> But you have to change your principles a little bit Jack now obviously going forward because even at a young age and you're new to it is still about survival is it for a manager because >> otherwise managers be losing their jobs. I know you've come from a good background with Arsenal where it's about coaching and development, >> but now you're in that game after a couple of defeats and it is survival is do you feel that even already at this stage of the season? 100% 100% because you know people said before I got the job boy people say what's your philosophy and I would be go bang bang bang it's that well it's not it's it's winning like because if you don't win you don't get time um you become under pressure people make strange decisions and change under pressure players change under pressure so you have to win you have to survive and then it's about for me is principles and philosophies is is developing the individual within a playing style so you have to have a really clear idea here and principles are important, but for example, if we're building up, Roy, a principle that I would say and we have is play off the highest possible line. Now, sometimes the highest possible line might be have to go back to your goalie if they close everything up and they're in a block. Sometimes it might be that they got a really high line and you can get behind them straight away. Um but yeah having a clear idea and then developing players towards that because also the other side of it Roy as well is that you know where we are as a club we also have to develop players to sell to be able to make money and and survive and >> yeah but the main thing principles philosophy is is winning games because >> but are the clubs still a bit hung over even from the Premier League? Were there still be a few hang-ups with that? >> Yeah, there definitely was. when when I when I first went in um I actually started at Lon so I had an idea about about the club um and I obviously watched their journey through the years and how high they got after being so low and then probably for the first time in a lot of years the first time where they had face a little bit of adversity and double relegation all of a sudden they find theself in League One and yeah so going into it I was I had my eyes open and I remember standing in front of the players the first day and um thinking my they seem like their eyes are open, they're listening, they they seem like they want to go on a journey and then the first game was Mansfield at home and uh yeah, I walk out in the stadium and and clap the fans and get a nice reception and then straight away when the game starts, I feel like a an energy in the stadium and there was some frustration and I think, you know, from my point of view, from the players point of view, they probably understood it. they probably understood that um two years ago Chelsea were coming there, Arsenal were coming there and now all of a sudden we're in League One and we're in a in a place where we're losing games in League One and we lost that game. We lost that game 2-0 and um yeah, it taught me a lot because the players, they needed a a direction, they needed belief. Um and then I feel like they needed someone that is just going to stand by that no matter what and and be consistent with the messages. And yeah, we went up, down, up, down, and then we we found a little bit of consistency at the end of the season, but we're still in that place where we have to find that again, and we have to fight that that. >> So, what's the expectation this year then? Is it simple to get to be in the mix to go up? Yeah, that's >> Yeah, the expectation from from the outside is is that and from the inside as well, you know, we finished on 72 points last year and we missed out by one point in the playoffs on the last day. So, from my point of view and how I coach and how we work is to I feel like we can get 10 more points than we got last year, which then puts us in a place where um yeah, we're there or thereabouts. But yeah, we we need to um to work at that because League One is is crazy, Roy. Like there's so much that uncertainty and chaos in the game that um >> yeah, it's not it's not because we got good players. >> Don't get relegated to League two. [laughter] >> Yeah. Can I just ask what do you enjoy the most about it? Is it managing the players? Is it being out on the grass? I've played at soccer aid with you and you could still play. You could still do you join in training or >> uh sometimes if only the small areas once the pitch open. [laughter] I'm done. Um what do I enjoy the most? >> Yeah, it changes. It changes. I love the players and generally I do. I feel like that is an important thing um for any coach, any manager that you do have to love your players and and enjoy their company and enjoy spending time with them because the demands and the schedule is is so so much that you yeah, you don't want them to feel like don't get me wrong, you have you have high standards and and when you're in the meeting room and and you can challenge them, but when you're outside and you're speaking to the press and and and the media to protect them and and show you show them that you love them. So, I do love the players. Um, and I enjoy spending time with them. Um, >> probably them, yeah, winning, but also I like planning a game. I do enjoy that part of it. And, um, looking at an opposition, you know, sometimes I'm watching four games before we play them. But I feel like I I really enjoy that part of it. >> And that's why it's so intense, isn't it? Did I read somewhere that you're in at like quart 6 in the morning? Is that what time you get in at? >> Yeah, but that's that's pretty standard, right? >> Yeah. But I I was shocked at that, right? >> [laughter] >> 10. >> Easy, Jamie. I don't know. All right, pal. Yeah, >> but it's a long day. >> No, it is. Absolutely. >> But not if you're going two days a week. Yeah. Just [laughter] >> This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Disney Plus. >> Has anybody watched the real Rooney on Disney Plus? On Disney Plus