Man City Guilty: Titles Stripped, Relegation & Owners Must Go! | Stick to Football EP 151
Join Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher, Jill Scott, Roy Keane and Ian Wright on a special episode of Stick to Football, brought to you by Disney+, as they react to the verdict in Manchester City’s financial case. We’re joined by journalist David Ornstein and prominent sports KC Paul Gilroy to break down the case, what happens next and the potential consequences for Manchester City. The discussion covers possible punishments, the appeals process and whether relegation, points deductions or stripped titles could follow. The team also debate what the verdict means for City’s owners, players and supporters, how the club’s success will now be viewed and the wider impact on the Premier League and rival clubs. What punishment do you think Manchester City should face? Let us know in the comments below. 00:00 - Intro 06:35 - David Ornstein on Charges 23:58 - Appeals And Sanctions 38:26 - Removing Ownership 54:09 - KC Paul Gilroy on Charges 01:20:21 - Liverpool vs City Preview 01:22:30 - Stripping Titles and Legacy 01:27:35 - Super 6 If you want more Wayne Rooney - then watch The Real Rooneys, a Hulu Original series, new and exclusive on Disney+. © 2026 Disney and its related entities. 18+. Subscription required. This episode is sponsored by Super 6. Visit super6.skysports.com for your chance to win. Terms and conditions apply: https://super6.skysports.com/terms SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL HERE https://www.youtube.com/c/theoverlap STICK TO UNITED WITH WAYNE ROONEY ON THE UNITED STAND https://www.youtube.com/@UnitedStand/videos JOIN THE OVERLAP WHATSAPP CHANNEL HERE https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VbC3WQvAYlUCoCqZgA45 SUBSCRIBE TO THE OVERLAP BREAKDOWN CHANNEL HERE https://www.youtube.com/@TheOverlapBreakdown SUBSCRIBE TO THE OVERLAP NEWSLETTER https://substack.com/@theoverlapnewsletter SUBSCRIBE TO IT WAS WHAT IT WAS PATREON Join here ➡️ www.patreon.com/itwas SUBSCRIBE TO STICK TO RUGBY HERE https://www.youtube.com/@TheOverlapRugby SUBSCRIBE TO THE STICK TO CRICKET CHANNEL HERE…
Transcript
What's that flavor again? I've lost my mind. >> Cinnamon. >> No. >> Is it? >> No. What's the uh You're an apple. >> No. >> What's the new What's the new flavor everyone has? Oh my god, I love it. You got an ice cream now. What? What's What's >> pistachio? >> Pistachio. When did pistachio come out? >> Do you [laughter] mean you know when >> pistachio come out? [laughter] >> It's everywhere now though. >> Has anyone heard of pistachio when you were a kid? Pistachio ice cream now is just Oh, unbelievable. >> Do you know what's pistachio? Do you know what's made it quite I think famous in the last few years. Do you like Dubai chocolate? Have you ever tried it? >> Oh, the any pistachio when I was just like >> Have you had the chocolate though with that? That that that >> Why does it have to be from Dubai? >> No, that's the name of it. It's called Dubai chocolate. >> Oh, but >> I get the the bites from Marks and Spencers on the train. >> What bites? >> Pistachio bites. >> Yeah, like pistachio in the middle of the chocolate. >> Like the Dubai chocolate. >> You just have to be >> I don't know. That's what it's called. If you're going to Martin say that cuz he said >> if you're going to Martin and Spencer for chocolate, you've just got to get the giant buttons. [laughter and snorts] >> The giant milk buttons. >> Kieran, is there a podcast financial fair play? Is there an FFP of podcasts? >> Can you imagine be able to afford Kieran? >> Exactly. Who [laughter] has the most staff? [gasps] >> I'd hate to have to do that. >> Would you say I mean Super League was massive. Would you say this is bigger? >> Yeah. I think this is going to linger for longer cuz Super League was a thing that happened. It was all over quick. >> Boom. Boom. This has just gone on for that long. And I think it's going to go on really long because they're not backing down, are they? The owners at all. They're not being >> They're almost doubling down, aren't they? On it. >> Well, they are publicly. You wonder behind the scenes whether they would be trying to get a deal done. That's >> Everyone thought they'd get off. We all thought I thought I thought they'd get like 52 or 36 of them. You know, >> I was convinced they were always guilty of it, >> but I just didn't see how the Premier League could would beat them in the in the >> in the league. >> This goes out anyway, this bit, doesn't it? [laughter] >> I'll save this for the show. >> You don't have to save it for the show. >> No, but I just couldn't see the Premier League beating them >> from a legal perspective. >> Yeah, I just I just they tangled them up. The lawyers, they'd have the money they keep throwing at it. I I just I thought the most bizarre thing was City's statement saying that they've got irrefutable evidence. >> Unbelievable. >> Unbelievable. [laughter] >> That basically it's not right. And then >> I had to watch it twice. I watched that interview. I watched it >> just been found guilty. [laughter] >> Do it before the guilty. >> It was a bit Trumpesque, wasn't it? It's a bit like >> Putin. It was Trump. It was like, oh my god. >> I would have made him look more guilty if anything doing that video. [sighs and gasps] >> Yeah. It's a shocker for the Premier League. Oh, >> it's a shocker. You think of all them games you watched over those years with that team >> and how brilliant that team >> is and was. >> Some of the best play you've ever seen >> and you just think you're watching that all the way through. >> You have to walk in like this when you get an episode like this. >> Are we No. Here's our jury. [laughter] WHOA. WHAT'S THIS? >> NO. >> Here's the case for the defense. [laughter] [laughter] >> I need to be Rocky today. >> Only joking. >> Oh god. [laughter] >> What's this on here? Is this everything gal on here? >> It's just I just thought for the first time you might want some of the stuff in front of you here. You might not. But >> Gary rang us and I was like, do you want us to sit this one out? [laughter] Think no. I said you've got a lot of people coming on. >> Are you You're not an ambassador for city. >> No, I'm not an ambassador. >> Were you ever an ambassador for city? >> Uh, no. >> Nice colors and different colors. I'm going to take this home with me. >> You never got no payment. >> No, this could be taken away. >> When you stop playing, you never got paid once by them. >> She was commercial. >> Be very careful what you >> director between 2009. [laughter] >> No, I didn't. I got paid off them when I played. >> Yeah. Jill's hesitating on every answer, is she? >> No, I'm not. I'm actually not. >> You haven't got to worry. Is there nothing wrong? >> No. Visit. Yeah. [laughter] >> Sake. [laughter] >> Send your cake, wouldn't I? >> Yeah. You You wouldn't You'd never come and visit us. >> Of course you would. No, I actually a lot of people in prison. >> No, but my [laughter] my thoughts are It is sad for football and it's sad for sad for the club, isn't it? It affects like so many people this week. >> City or the other club? >> No, I mean for like City in terms of everybody who probably works at the club like who this week are probably >> that's the sad side of it. But that's the sad side. Them owners don't care about them. They don't care about anything like that. >> They've done Jill. >> But a club this is what I mean like in weeks like this and we've got to remember there's going to be an appeal as well but like it affects so many people doesn't it? time. Come on. [laughter] Come on. >> There's an appeal. >> No, there is an appeal. There's >> Yeah, but there's [laughter] just a >> stalling tactic. >> Thank you. The thing is with the appeal, [laughter] the appeal is just another way for them to try and see if they can find a loophole to get out of the charges that they've been found guilty of. It's not like they go to an appeal and they say, "Yep, you're right. You didn't do it." So, it's go back to normal. They're going to go and try and find a way to kick it further in the grass. >> But is there a chance that it could that the appeal could work? There must be Elsa wouldn't be appealing. >> You believe you believe the city people when they're talking when you see the owner come out cuz you're part of city. You've got that affiliation with them. Do you do you do you believe what he's saying? >> Well, I think for when a club means a lot to you, like on a personal level, it does mean a lot for me. like it was the reason I got to play professional football, you know what I mean? Like it give me I didn't think my dream existed and this club did that. So it does mean a lot. So it's hard to speak about it. So I think when this Premier League statement come out the club then comes out straight away and says look we are innocent and I think because of affiliation to the club then you want to believe that like >> that's what I think that's the right way. Exactly. You football club is like your family isn't it? like >> you want to believe and you want it to be true so much, don't you? That Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I I get that. >> I feel for them. >> David, thanks for coming on. Obviously, there's only one story dominating the headlines this week, and you did an incredible job last Friday along with The Athletic in Breaking that story. Just want to >> take you back. When did you first get the call? When did you first get the message that this was happening and you must have been I mean jumping around at that point trying to sort of validate the story. >> Yeah, exactly. So, we've had many false thorns in this process, haven't we? With people thinking uh a verdict was coming. I remember to spring around April time 2025 there was a feeling inside city people we were speaking to there were suggesting we've we're getting the verdict soon. That's what we've been told. I think Pep Guardiola said within the next couple of months at one point he said that on the record. >> Um but on Thursday night my colleague at the Athletic Matt Slater sent a message into our group saying um a contact of his his had said light the beacons um that this is this is happening that uh the verdict has been delivered to Manchester City and to the Premier League. That had to happen at the same time. Um, >> when you say Premier League, you mean all the other clubs or just the Premier League? >> To the Premier League, they're the two parties in in this dispute. Um, but it emerged, I think the first place I saw it was on the BBC, Dale um Dale Johnson uh reported that the clubs had been notified by the Premier League. Uh they had had to sign NDAs, very strict uh requirements. Uh and then that would give them access to a document to read the summary of the findings. Um, so you know, by the time Matt had alerted us and we at the Athletic start making our checks, speaking to contacts and sources into Friday when I was over at the Portugal Football Summit in Lisbon, I had a speaking commitment over there about the transfer window and actually how we work, the process journalistically to do this sort of thing. Um, and I got a call when I was on stage from one of the many people I had tried to get hold of to understand what was going on. At that moment, I didn't know what they were calling back about, but then when I got off stage, I I made a number of calls. Um, and always with these things, whether it's a transfer story, a new contract, an injury, ownership related things, people talk. A lot of people know what's going on, whether they've signed NDAs or not. Word spreads. And by the I didn't actually work as hard on this to get the information than I have on quite a lot of other stories because I mean, it's been going on for so long. And I think there was a probably a sense of relief that there was some kind of step forward in the process maybe at all ends, City, Premier League, other clubs. And so yeah, you perform your checks um balances, you you corroborate, you make sure you've scrutinized your sources. I happened to be over there with our editor-inchief, Laura Williamson, and and therefore she was all over me in terms of uh making sure I had followed due process because you don't want to get this one wrong of of all of the stories out there. >> But actually, it's the same sort of methodical procedure that you would apply to any story. In this case, it just happens to have been more high-profile. And then when you feel comfortable uh with all of your various information, you uh speak to the the two parties, Manchester City, Premier League, to give them a right of reply. City provided a a statement. Um man u the Premier League said nothing, no comment. And then you have to have the courage to push the button and and go with it and um and then hope you're right. >> How long was it between that call on the So you released it what 5:00 was it on Friday? >> Yeah, there or thereabouts. you that moment from Thursday evening when you get the initial we've got the virtue you've heard that 114 out 115 what takes the time is it just the is it just the actual validation of a story for that next well effectively nearly 20 hours >> well it was just that the verdict had been delivered was Matt's information uh to the parties and so you've got to try and understand >> when did you hear the first that they were guilty of all charges >> uh when I came off stage at the football summit on uh Friday lunchtime >> okay so I'm making lots of checks and within that period colleagues are too and I'm sure other organizations judging by how quickly uh some of the newspapers and broadcasters published after we went we weren't the only ones privy to this and working on it uh and and at any moment like with any story it can come out elsewhere and you sort of win some lose some that's the nature of the beast um but so my role was to try and first understand if Matt's information on it being delivered was true and then if it is which it was um what the news is, what the verdict is, have city been cleared, have city been found guilty, and then what have they been found guilty of? And you make so many different checks um to try and sort of triangulate all your information. And these are very trusted relationships that have been built up over many, many years um uh to try and get to the point where you've got as little doubt as possible, that you've got a sufficient picture to be able to to go with it at this point. And although we learned so much more when the actual verdict was published by the Premier League, uh we had a clear direction of travel on Friday. >> What was City's response when you first rang them? >> Uh it's just a standard procedure. I've got good relationships with all of these clubs and um it goes back many years across so many different stories and you know each other personally in in most of these cases and so as ever they were quite calm and professional. um there's not much they could have said because they're bound by confidentiality. So there was a a short statement issued by a spokesperson a and that was it. Um it was sort of a cordial conversation, short um no detail, but also it's very rare that you get shouting matches and things like that unless there's something fundamentally wrong or you've stepped out of line and similar with the Premier League just um dealt with it in the in the normal way. They didn't want to say >> sorry if but if you were wrong with that story when you're saying there's no shouting matches, there's not a lot they can say. But if it wasn't true, they deny it. It's basically the fact that they don't deny it tells you, "Right, this is true. I can go with this." >> But they said innocent, didn't they? Is that not them like in their statement saying that they're innocent? Is that not them denying it? >> Um that they believe they're innocent, but that doesn't change the verdict that they've been found guilty. Um so uh I think uh in in that sort of situation I don't think they could have interacted because of the confidentiality. So I had to be very careful just because it wasn't denied or confirmed. I can't assume. I have to rely on the strength of my sourcing not on their response. Now, I could guess that like with many stories, depending on the strength of your relationship with the communications director or press officer, that they might in a transfer story or something like that, say, "You're along the wrong lines here." And maybe they would have done that in this case. I've got no idea. That's me speculating. Um, I'd hazard a guess that they just couldn't say anything, but the fact that I I was given a statement and there was no kind of animosity. Um, and I was so sure I you can't really go to these people if you're not sure of your information because they're not there to help you. There may be in some cases if you're trying to set up an interview or something like that. Um or you might have a better relationship with some clubs. Um it's a bit less sensitive. They want some information out there. They're a bit more talkative. There's no rules in this sort of relationship. Um but on that case, I just um I really needed to notify them that it was coming and then it's up to them how they respond. >> But I know you're professional, but are you getting a buzz off this then as well? Are you like players going to a big game? Are you thinking this is this is you waiting for? >> This is huge. Or are you still trying to be like let's straight porter properly and don't make any mistakes? >> Well, the integrity that I pride myself on and it runs through my veins is has taught me to go through the process as opposed to get excited or um start sort of buzzing about you know what you might be about to do. It's about getting it right and you don't want to make a mistake because, you know, going through my head is if I get it wrong, it could break my career or I'd be mortified if if something wasn't accurate. And in my industry, you don't get everything spot on, but you try and do everything within your power, too. But yeah, of course, I'd be lying if I didn't say there's a there's a there's more tension with this for sure because it's the one everybody's been waiting for. >> It's the big game is it's a massive game. It's the big game, but like it it's not about the journalist that that it's very kind of people to to talk about that. >> It's the biggest story you will have ever reported in your life. I know you've done a lot of big stories, but this is the biggest, I would imagine, by somewhere. This is a huge story. It's one of the biggest stories in Premier League and football history. >> It is. And you're aware of that. But that just guides my diligence in terms of making sure you go through the steps and get it right. And I promise you those steps, even though there's not like a a a script or a syllabus or a magic potion, you do tend to follow similar procedure whether you're dealing with something in the conference league or in the Premier League and even to this extent. And I just want to say very quickly on that um like I don't take pleasure from one of the sorryest episodes in English European world football history. Like I'm not getting an exhilaration from uh a club being found guilty of industrial level cheating which they still deny. The fan base that will be in pieces as a result of this. U former players and staff and executives many of whom I know at that club and others who are at the height of their game. They Man City have appointed and bought through so many good people, professionals, players. The industry is full of former Manchester City and CSG executives, um, players, uh, coaches, staff members, you name it, on the men's and women's side. And so I I I I don't >> But David, you also don't have to explain that. You know, let's be clear, you're a journalist. We have a free press in this country, and your job is to basically bring stories to us of this nature. If we stop bringing stories of this nature forward, then to be honest with you, we're in real trouble. So my view is accepting the fact that there are obviously people involved in this, you know, you did absolutely everything that you needed to do and you don't have to obviously to be fair apologize to anybody. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by [music] Disney Plus. What is the noise coming out of the other clubs? I'm not going to name any clubs, but the Premier League clubs that you'll be speaking to right now, are they smelling blood >> and do they want their pound of flesh or are they got any compassion or empathy or sympathy? Where is where are the mindset of the other Premier League clubs right now? >> Yeah, just quickly on your last point, very concise answer. Um, I'm governed by impartiality. So irrespective of the relationships that you're talking about and whether you feel good about people, you've just got to do your job and and Manchester City and the other clubs know that and that's why actually the process was probably quite cordial because I've done it for my whole career. >> Um and and and this was in the public's interest. I was getting a lot of stick and abuse from Manchester City fans uh saying whoever called you up and leaked it, it wasn't a leak as such. I don't regard it as a leak. You may have a different definition of what a leak is. I think I uncovered it and followed due process to perform a really important piece of journalism. And interestingly, I've had no complaints from anybody involved. The only complaints and stick have come from social media because there's a lot of emotion and people being upset. um in terms of other clubs. So immediately when the story came out, you got a lot of wow shock, didn't see this coming today, the extent of it or the actual verdict thought they would be innocent or whatever. And then when you start talking to people around the game, at clubs, governing bodies, um, on all sides of this, um, there was a little bit, especially among those who feel they've been wronged as a resul