"TRAGEDY!" Graeme Souness WEIGHS IN on Man City's GUILTY VERDICT amid punishment decision!

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Graeme Souness on the Man City affair, Martinez, Liverpool and Kane

talkSPORT interviews Graeme Souness about his Rangers years, Martinez's public criticism of Man United, Man City's tactics against PSG, the Man City affair, Italian football, Liverpool and Harry Kane's Ballon d'Or case. His main conclusions are that the Man City noise is bad for football, Martinez should not have gone public, Italian football is in decline, Liverpool's midfield lacks off-ball work, and Kane is a serious Ballon d'Or contender despite the Bundesliga's lower intensity.

Graeme Souness joins Tony Cascarino and Alan Brazil to discuss his new book, his career, as well as the latest from the Champions League and Premier League. Subscribe: https://youtube.com/c/talkSPORT?subconfirmation=1 🏆 Ready to win? Check out the latest prizes at talkSPORTwin.com Enjoyed this YouTube video? 😍 🖥️ talkSPORT's Website: https://talksport.com/ 📲 talkSPORT's X/Twitter: https://x.com/talkSPORT 📷 talkSPORT's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talksport/?hl=en 👤 talkSPORT's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/talkSPORT/ 📱 talkSPORT's Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@talksport ? 🔴 Download the talkSPORT app HERE! - https://talksport.com/apps/ 🔎 Want to see if you feature on our YouTube channel? Check out our Best talkSPORT callers playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFVMnSsi04LGLa9pS9xDvme-Gjmlu2 lfc mcfc talkSPORT PremierLeague

Transcript

Totally delight to say. Join us now. Threetime European Cup winner, five-time league winner with Liverpool, plus seventime trophy winner as a player and manager at Ibrooks. Graham Sunnis joins us. Graeme, very good morning, Graeme. >> Graham, >> good morning, guys. Al, how are you? You're looking good. >> I'm good, mate. No, I'm good. Thank you. No, I'm good. >> Feel like you can play again. >> No, slight exaggeration. >> No, thank you. Every every week goes by, Graeme, I feel better and better. I've been ill for a few ill for a few years and um I knew I didn't realize how bad it was but you know cancer gets to a lot of people and when it's on your liver you know there's only one thing get it out. So I I can't like yourself Graeme. I just can't thank the surgeons, the staff, the nurses, the hospital, everyone involved. I just can't thank them enough. Save my life. >> Your family as well. >> Oh, absolutely. I would. That's why I'll never drink again because I I would never put my wife and my kids through that again. Never. Gra. >> Yeah. Well, good for you. >> Ah, thank you. I'm told you had a lovely day yesterday in the city um for your fantastic charity. Tell me a little bit about that. That's uh Deborah. >> Yeah. Well, I'm I am I'm a grand firm. I'm the president. Yeah, I don't know how that's happened. Of Deborah, and we we look after young people who have a condition called epidermalosis bossa. And it's it's just terrific. It's a the best day of your life is the day you're born and it's downhill from then. You're every day you're >> you're fighting it. You know, you're in pain, you're in itch. And then four maybe five times a week have their dressings changed. And to do that, they have to have ketamine, morphine, fentinol just to get themselves through that. And it's just truly horrific. But it's we're fighting it. >> G until you get into you don't real, you know, I didn't realize, you know, when I went into the hospital like yourself, >> I was looking around and I'm thinking, how lucky am I when I look at some of the people, poor people lying next to me. Unbelievable. >> Yeah. I don't know about you, but as I've got older, I appreciate it even more and more. you know, been blessed, you know, being you're like me. We're still robbing a living out of football in some respect. >> Yes. >> Football's been so kind to us. [laughter] >> Actually, all of us >> not found out yet. >> Before I forget, how is Kenny? Because I was >> Go on. >> I was going to say I I I sh I shuddered when I heard Kenny had cancer. I thought, "Oh my god." So, you were probably aware of that. I wasn't. And um I know what K, you know, Kenny's just so full of. He's so full of it, you know, life and so confident. That must have been a shock to him. But he gets on with it, doesn't he? Unbelievable, man. >> He's like, he's a Glasgow boy. You know, you know what they're like. Um >> he's a fighter and and he'll he'll be fighting it for a long, long time. I'm sure. >> Yeah. >> You know what it's like. You know what he's like. He will not he will not accept one ounce of sympathy. Don't even go there with them. >> No magic. Graeme, I wanted to ask you because um obviously you've been involved in the charity for a long time and when was the line in the sand where you realized that you really wanted to jump in because you went say jump in because of the you did the uh the swim in the channel, didn't you? And you've done other stuff. So, you know, when was that line for you where you just thought I got to give something back to communities or people that need help? >> About 30 about eight years, seven, eight years ago. Tony 30 seconds. I was at a dinner at the Kensington Garden Hotel about 30 seconds into a talk that a young girl called Myra was was to unfortunately she's no longer with us but she was a sufferer >> and it was like how how you know because in football we've been in dressing rooms we've been at training grounds where people you know unfortunately you see people turn up there who've got life limiting time ahead of them little kids in some cases men And um and I I was just amazed, gobsmacked that I'd never seen this before, this condition. It's it's it's it's you can't say it's a worse thing because everyone's there's so many sad cases out there, but this is a this is a condition sent by the devil. It robs them of any quality of life, life limiting. And the impact it has obviously not just on the the poor sufferer, but the families is enormous. >> Enormous. We we had a we had a little girl two months ago. She was I think she was 18 months old. She died, you know. Well, you have a baby that dies at 18 19 months old. It's just it's just the crulest thing and the impact of the families. It it it it's heartbreaking. >> Grab the spot. It's not just the kids, it's the families and those who the loved ones around the poor kids, you know, they go through hell as well, don't they? >> Yeah. But what's what's the worst thing you could happen to you as a parent is seeing I can remember my mom saying to me I wish when I had tooth I wish I could take the pain for you some you know what's the worst thing you that could have seen your children suffer. >> Yeah >> that's that that there's nothing worse. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more 100%. Now you've your new book My Rangers how I change Scottish football. >> I bet you've got it already. >> Fair enough. I've enough I will get to I was hoping you're going to send me one. Graham [laughter] now my co is gone about it but Graeme tell us about the book please. >> Well I I had five unbelievable years at at Glasgow Rangers. Um first managerial job every day was um was so exciting. There seemed to be always something happening. You know that's the case at a big football club. Walter Smith said to me many many times afterwards the best five years of his football in life and the five years we had together at Glasgow Rangers. It was just so exciting. On where are we now? >> On Monday evening, I was out with John Greg. And when I was there, when I was there, Greg is 84, the greatest ever ranger. >> Uh absolutely what a man. Um sadly, you know, he's just recently lost his wife. But what a what a man he is. And he said he said the same when when in those five years. I just loved it because he just never knew what was happening from day to day. So it's my story. We've um you know lots of people have had a go at telling what they thought was the real story. So I've had a go at that. It's a legacy piece. You know I'm at an age now where I feel that I want to get it out there good and bad. >> It wasn't all good. You know we we managed to win quite a bit and turn the club around. It wasn't easy but I had enormous help along the way. So it was a thank you to the people that have helped me do that. Um and it was just it was I really enjoyed doing I did it with my pal up there, Chick Young, who I'm sure you know, he knows everything about [clears throat] football up there. So, we had great fun doing it and we're both jogging each other's memories and we've got some interesting stories, I think. >> I don't think George McCclus could be buying it, Graeme. I remember that tackle against Hibs at Hampton. I don't know if he's still walking. >> Easter road Easter and it was >> and I was out of order. [laughter] >> You never seen a tackle like this? >> No. No. Well, it I've said I remember of Graham attacking my old colleague at Milwood, Terry Erlock, and uh and he he loved it up there when he was there. He he just said what an experience and and and it feels strange from the outside because that Rangers team of 86 to 91 and you'd won loads of titles and you know Celtic and Rangers always been battling Graham as we know, but why why could you do what you did then and that clearly looks like it can't happen now? Well, it's quite simple to Tony. First of all, Terry Hurley, how good was he? People thought he was just, you know, a tough guy. He could play. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> he could play. He could. He's a lovely striker of the ball. And um he did love up there because the crowd loved him because, you know, Rangers have always had people like that playing for them. You talk about John Greg, Terry Herlock. They're not players that I would have enjoyed playing against. I can tell you, you know, proper men. But the reason we got we got lucky. I got lucky. The club got lucky because at that time if you remember it was post um ISIL. So English clubs were banned from Europe at that time which is hard to understand now or believe. We could we could match Man United, Tottenham anyone. In fact we bought Terry Butcher when both Tottenham and Man United were after him and we could we could sell the part of sell European football. Um and we ended up with I don't know four or five of the England national teams. So we had a proper team. I mean that team that team would have done well in England as well in those days. Very well. >> Graham you mentioned Teddy Butcher there. You won't believe this when I was in the youth team with Butch 1977 I think it was 767. I used to argue with Butch then about Celtic and Rangers. So it wasn't a fluke that Butch went to Rangers. He was always a bit of a Rangers fan. >> Well well let me tell you about him. you know, anything we did, anything we achieved at Rangers was was because of him. There's a large chunk of it down to him because he you know what a statement a Scottish club are making when they sign the England, the current England captain >> and it's and this is really important to me because this is my experience in dressing rooms in football clubs. You need good senior pros. So, apart from the quality he gave me on the pitch, what he did in the dressing room for me was immense. Like I I really once you get players like that and Richard Goff, Mark Hley, Little Ray Wilkins, there's not there's not a lot there's not a lot for me to do. Not a lot for a manager to do because you come down at halftime when it's not going well from the director's box and they're all arguing amongst themselves. They're putting it right before I open my mouth. So I had real men in that dressing room. >> Graham, you mentioned Ray there. Well, I'm going to have a quick break and we'll come back. But Ry, I said I loved Ray. I absolutely love I loved him. And he said to me, you know what, Ali? He said, "My time at Ibrooks was the happiest of my life." He said, "I loved every day." >> Al, when we come back, let me tell you a story about Ray Wilkins. >> Brilliant. Right back in the tip with Graham Suners quarter tonight. Uh Tony Cascarina alongside me and Liverpool and Rangers legend Scotland legend Graeme Sunnis. Manchester United defender Martinez says he spoke out of anger and frustration when launching a scathing attack on the club's hierarchy. Martinez took to social media last night saying, "My words reflect how I feel and how much I want to see this club compete for the biggest honors. When I talk about wanting more, I'm talking about the ambition we must all have as part of this club." Graeme Sun is still with us this morning. Graeme, as a player, share in the dressing room with Martinez or a manager. I wouldn't be too happy with that. I promise you. I' I'd have been Well, I'd have been very angry. I don't know how you feel about it, Graeme. Is it frustration or is he just stupid? >> Um, a bit of both, I think. I don't think um that was the right platform to to say what he said. I think that should have been said in private in a dressing room um with a manager there and his teammates here. I know if I'm going into work with him the following morning, I'm going to go and come on then. Who do you think is not good enough? >> Yeah. >> Am I one of them that you think is not good enough? >> Yeah. >> And I don't think it's helped Man United's cause. It's just, >> you know, it's more petrol on the fire at a time when they don't need that. >> No, absolutely. >> Especially Graeme when if he's not playing his best football as well. So it be >> he's not he's not exactly you know setting the price the best player the best player in their team is he? No, no, exact. That's that's that's what I was thinking. Exactly. Graham, um, just um on um on the Premiership now, Manchester City last night was I hope you enjoyed that game last night. >> It was incredible, wasn't it? >> All the goals, all the games, majority of games all over Europe, lots of goals. >> Yeah. Yeah. Last night, City, I don't know how you feel, Grim. As soon as City lined up with the two wide boys, I thought, don't get me wrong, they fantastic players on the day. Um, I just thought against a side like PSG with their midfield where they're so strong and you're playing two wide players against two very speedy fullbacks, I thought this could be trouble. But in saying that, I didn't realize how easy it was for PSG in the first half an hour, how to cut through city. >> Well, yeah. You know, I mean, what's the last thing what's the last thing you hear as you're walking out of a dressing room, guys? >> Make sure you start right. >> That be Certainly in my world, that'd be the last thing you would say, last thing you would hear. Um, once you hand once once you hand over the impetus to the opposition, it's hard to pull it back from them. And and I just felt, yeah, they maybe got it maybe got a bit wrong with the formation. I mean, City have got great players, but when you're playing against a team that is so good in possession in the center midfield, you're going to have to ask your two wider players to play narrower and and make up the numbers because it'd be hard to um get the ball back from them. are so good at keeping the ball in tight areas. >> Yeah, >> very special team. >> Yeah, >> but you have to say that if you look at the efforts on goal and how the second half panned out, City should have got something from the game. >> Yeah. City proper side, Graeme, aren't they? Man City proper side. >> Oh, Terry May. I saw that Anfield. Although they were, you know, they busted it when they went to 10 men Liverpool, but yeah, they're a real team and all the noise around about them. It's just, you know what it is? It's tragic for our game. Forget anything, it's tragic for our game. It's not great for our game because that's, you know, it's I'll tell you this too. I was in Dubai last year. I'm in the lift and I'm in the lift with a Asian looking guy, a Chinese guy and he's looking at me and I'm looking at him >> and um we could see him looking at me and he eventually said, "Are you?" And I said, "Yes." And I said, "Where are you from? How would you know me?" He says, "I'm from Mongolia." >> Uhhuh. >> Yeah. >> He says, "The Premier League is so popular in Mongolia." >> Amazing. >> The reach of the Premier League is enormous. all the four corners of the world and that you know what's happening now and the noise about the Premier League in Man City is is reaching everywhere unfortunately. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Grim you're going to tell me a story about Ray Wilkins. I can't I can't let this go. >> So So we're training I'm playing in in a six side and I had a guy called Neil Cooper who was at Villa. >> Yeah. >> He's a big big old is no longer with us. He's in my team and I've gone for a ball with him and he smashed into me and I've gone down and I can't breathe. As it's turned out, I've broke three ribs and I'm gasping for breath. So, I'm on my back looking up at all these concerned faces looking down on me. >> Yeah. >> And then I can hear, "Let me in. Let me in. I've wasted 10 years to see this be bast, you know that word. I've waited 10 years to see him like this." And it was Ray Wilkins peering down laughing laughing at me. >> So, he he was just the best to work with. He's just the best to work with. They used to come in with a wick some mornings in the early days. And Walter would come up to me in the office and say, "Do you know do you know if Razer wears a wig? [laughter] I I don't know." He said, "Well, he's coming and he's not saying anything. The boys don't know. The boys don't know how to handle it." >> Yeah. >> You know, is he wearing it for a joke or does he really wear one? So [laughter] you had them you had them all on to us. >> Graeme, can I ask you because um we always talk about different leagues and you know is the Premier League the tough one the toughest in the world? Well, obviously it is. But what do you think has happened to Italian football? Because seeing the results that has happened in the last you know few days so many of these great Italian teams who are just and they don't even look like the way they play they don't look like Italian teams. No, Tony, in your life, you go back and it's a good decade now anyway, maybe more. You could always name three or four worldclass Italians. >> I couldn't tell you one of them the last 10 years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's been up there. Italian football's in the doldrums. Um when I went out to play there, the the best players in the world were out there. You know, Ziko was there, Maradona was there, Platin was there, >> I could go on. Yeah. >> Socrates, they were all there. And it's a very different world now Italian football. Um >> look at the the results Gem last night and the night before the goals are conceded. You never see that Italian sides. >> So on Italian that's what they were really good at you know defending you know being aggressive defending properly being concentrated. >> Yeah >> being athletic and they were fabulous players at times. I was quite amazed when I went there to play about you know you think that maybe they could be rolled over physically. They couldn't, you know, there I there was more confights in my two years at Sori on training than there was my seven years at Liverpool. They're always falling out of each other. >> Liverpool Graeme Areola, can he turn it around? It appears to me again a two hours race. City Arsenal. What about Liverpool? Can can we get a great Liverpool side back again? >> Yeah. Yeah, of course it's possible. But I mean what what you know the players I brought in have not really performed to the levels they would want. Um this sack is fragile but they knew that when the bottom fragile and if they continue being like that then they got problems because they are goal scorers you know that you know can score goals in the Premier League and they will get goals for them but how many games will they play in a season? Verts has yet to really really get going. Um I have to say I like my manager cuz I live down in pool. used to go and watch Born Murphy. He plays front foot football. >> Yeah. >> Likable guy. When you hear him speak, it's all common sense, which is which is a rarity these days rather than all the goblygook that coaches and managers spout. Um I like him. So I'm hoping so because he seems to be a good guy. [laughter] I I just feel when I look at Liverpool, maybe the midfield is is not as good at doing the hard yards. The hard yards in football when you don't have the ball and I just want, you know, it makes them back four vulnerable. People talk about oh the back the back forward the back how sometimes have look at the people in front that are not closing the ball down properly all of the time you can't you know if there's five of you doing it five have to do it four do it and one goes to sleep you'll be vulnerable >> well people don't people don't realize that Russia and Kenny used to do that they used to close >> oh no no I'll it's a new thing I believe it's just a modern game it's a modern thing [laughter] >> yeah unbelievable they used to do it >> you know you know can I just on that roy Moran, who's the biggest influence in my career, you know, they would throw it on a regular basis, isn't it? Joe, Joe Fager, and Ronnie Moran, one side the dress room, once another Ronnie would say, "Isn't it strange, Joe?" And this is so we could all hear. >> Yeah. >> And in our days, it was called closi