"LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS!" Simon Jordan & Martin Keown REACT to Man City fans DEFENDING club owners!

talkSPORT

talkSPORT debates why Manchester City fans are still backing the owners after the verdict

The show examines why Manchester City supporters, including the 1894 group, are still backing the club’s owners and questioning the impartiality of the process. Simon Jordan calls the “Premier League against City” narrative a conspiracy theory and accuses City of misdirection and delay, while Martin Keown says fans separate on-pitch success from financial doping and are unlikely to hold the owners to account. The panel is broadly sceptical of the fans’ unconditional support.

Simon Jordan, Jim White & Martin Keown discuss Manchester City fans' response to the club's guilty verdict. Subscribe: https://youtube.com/c/talkSPORT Enjoyed this YouTube video? 😍 🖥️ talkSPORT's Website: https://talksport.com/ 📲 talkSPORT's Twitter: https://twitter.com/talkSPORT 📷 talkSPORT's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talksport/?hl=en 👤 talkSPORT's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/talkSPORT/ 📱 talkSPORT's Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@talksport ? 🔴 Download the talkSPORT app HERE! - https://talksport.com/apps/ 🔎 Want to see if you feature on our YouTube channel? Check out our Best talkSPORT callers playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFVMnSsi04LGLa9pS9xDvme-Gjmlu2 talkSPORT PremierLeague

Transcript

Manchester City beat Ipsswri 3-2 to say three points clear at the top of the table. Played 717. But City fans, you are the topic of our conversation this morning because you put a banner up of uh Frank Gallagher, the lead character from TV show Shameless in City Merchandise and then you booed the Premier League anthem whilst the fan group 1894, we're going to be hearing from a spokesman from that very group very shortly, put out a statement backing the owner stance around the guilty verdict, saying the current feeling from a majority of fans is that they don't believe the process is impartial and the constantly leaks and speculation highlight this protectionist setup. >> We'll be holding a a public fans forum with the Citizens Trust after the appeal result is known to see where supporters are at the moment. So, Simon Martin, the fans are on it, the fans are on it at this moment. Do you think fan groups such as the 1894 group, do you think they should be holding owners more to account here, Simon, their owners more to account rather than seemingly blindly following them? Well, not until the final nail has been whacked in their disingenuous coffin. No. Um, you know, they are convincing those that want to be convinced that there is a conspiracy against them. Um, unfortunately for them, and they're playing it through the press, they've done a lot of stuff in the med in the media this weekend with the Telegraph. um they will convince people that they've been poorly treated that a panel of independent experts are rather simple and disingenuous and partisan and that's what they're being able to convince those that are willing to listen to it. The interesting thing is how they'll be able to circumvent it. I don't know because they've got witnesses that have been given evidence that have been basically said that they're liars that they had an intention of lying, went into court to lie and have subsequent or independ independent commissions and lied. And so they're going to play this game. They're going to probably they're probably going to win their little arguments about how long the appeal should take. >> Yeah. >> Because the Premier League probably won't have the courage to turn around and say, "Well, we've changed the appeal process. We want this to be a five-day hearing." And Man City will argue that they shouldn't have that rule because the rule wasn't in place when the charge was originally brought. and the Premier League will probably cower away from it, thinking we don't want to give them an opportunity to say they weren't fairly treated. So, we'll probably go back to the longer appeal process. None of this, of course, is in the area of irrefutable evidence and integrity to clear up the position as quickly as possible. All of it is about creating what we're going to see is a litany of arguments being run by very sophisticated lawyers that could argue with anything. Martin, we're going to hear from a spokesman from this fan group in a second, but are you surprised that how much backing is being given to the owners by the fans at Manchester City at this time? >> No, I'm not. They're resolute. They believe that they're right and their owners are giving them that firm message. Irrefutable evidence will be revealed. So, they're holding on to that, Jim. And and there is a feeling I'm hearing rumors that this will all be over in a number of weeks. >> No. >> And that I'm I'm just telling you what I'm hearing. >> Okay. six weeks or so this will be we we'll see that we'll see what's going to happen and it won't be nearly as bad as we think it might be and maybe they get off with huge fines and we we we return to the football pitch again. It depends what you believe mind. >> Well, that's only if they do a deal. If they're doing a deal because the process has to be followed through and the appeal process is basically 12 weeks the new appeal process that was introduced in the middle of them being charged and found guilty. They the Premier League with Man City's backing as well refined the appeal process for events like this. Man City don't like this new appeal process. They want the old appeal process. So that works on the basis of 12 weeks from the date of being found guilty. They have a 5-day hearing with a 30-day judgment there on office. >> You say do a deal. So, but in a court of law, you're not giving the opportunity to. >> They're not going to go to a court of law. They're going into independent commission. If they go to the Premier League now, say to the Premier League, in advance of an appeal, we're serving you with notice of an appeal. What we'll do is we'll drop hands if we can work a deal out amongst ourselves. So, we don't need to go to an appeal. If that's what you're hearing now, that means that Man City have got to admit guilt or some degree of guilt or culpability. How they going to get around that one then? If they do a deal and pay it up, everyone's going to turn around and say, "We just done a deal and paid it up." >> Right. Right. Well, what I can tell you is we will gauge the fans reaction uh to this ongoing situation, this ongoing process very shortly. In fact, the other side of this break because they have been speaking the current feeling from a majority of fans, they tell us, is that they don't believe the process is impartial and that the constant leaks and speculation highlight this protectionist setup. So, they're having their say. So, why shouldn't we bring them to air this morning? And we're about to do that. Uh, Monday morning, Monday, October the 19th, Jim White, Simon Jordan, Martin Keon live and talk sport. Manchester City played 717, they're flying, but various fan groups are saying, "We back our owners and their stance around the guilty verdict." And one of those fans group is known as the 1894 fan group. Now, just before we came on air this morning, um I spoke to Dan Friend who wanted to join us on the show, um because of his schedule this morning, it had to be pre-recorded, and that's fine. So, Martin, myself, and Simon will tune in as will everybody out there this morning because Dan Friend decided to speak on behalf of his fan group, the 1894 group. So, we put it to them. Um where is this going at this particular time then? you've reaffirmed your support for Manchester City's owners over the weekend. So, what's led you to do just that? >> We have a membership of a few thousand and we also take stock of what fans are saying to us generally at the matches and it's about trust. So, I think the issue is who do the City fans at this moment in time trust more? But this is a case between the Premier League and City and the City fans trust the club more than the Premier League at this stage which I think is why you're seeing the reaction you are the fans are rallying around the team and the the general consensus is that the fans want to give the owners the time and the space to resolve these issues. Now don't know how long that will take. Might all end appeal stage. It might go on beyond that, but that's where I think the fan base are. All the fans can really do is get behind the team. >> I just wonder how wise that might be in the long term. Dan, are you not being a bit blinded here? Because some would point you to the fact that this club has been found guilty of 114 charges. >> So, the club has been found guilty by UEFA. They went to a higher bar and won the case. They also won the case for associated party transactions when rules were kind of were tweaked there. So when it's gone to uh the place that city want it to go to, City have come out on the right side and I think that's what fans see. >> You've said Dan that you don't think this process has been or is indeed impartial. Why is that? >> That's what the fans feel that the process may not be may be impartial. And uh I think you know when Etiad Airways are not even getting invited into the meeting to present evidence of where you know the money's come from. This is one of the big sticking points. This is a case going for three years so far and it seems like the information is not all there where the city don't trust the process in the early days. some some stuff seems to be coming out to the New York Times and I think City then slowed down the process didn't feel like they want to um dulge information if if this process was porous. So I feel if there's a case where somebody's a criminal procedure going on. You're not allowed to talk about it online on Twitter, it might prejudice the case. This is huge sums of money being uh being mentioned, but nobody's going to jail. So why are we having years and years of let's decide the punishment. Let's publicly destroy the club. Let's take the medals off Kevin De Bruyne. And I think this is what's annoying the City fans. The City fans are saying there's a process here. We love our club. We trust the owners more than we trust the Premier League. And we see that the Premier League is is kind of led by three or four clubs in particular. They were very influential at G14. They were very influential at UEFA. And I think City have always been the outsiders in the room, hence their phrase tyranny of the majority. If City feel that I mean the club tell us that they're innocent. So if City feel that they are innocent, I don't feel that they are going to come to some sort of agreement or some settlement. It's all or nothing and it'll be proved at some point somewhere along the line and somebody's going to be right and somebody's going to be wrong. And I think what the Premier League have done is they've mentioned sham contracts and you've got to be very very careful because you could see, you know, an injunction stopping the process at some point. You could see evidence being produced which completely destroys the case. Dan, you're you're clearly hoping for the best outcome, but are you preparing for the worst one as well? >> I think you've seen, Jim, when uh the fans are going in the retro shirts and they're getting the bananas out. That goes from a time from the from the mid 80s, the late 80s. So, that message there is we're the fans. Whatever wherever we land, we will be there. >> They're going to be there. And why not? because that's what fans do, especially the loyal ones like Dan Friend of the 1894 supporters group. What's your take on what you're saying, Simon? Is is that more or less what you'd expect to hear? >> Yeah. From a supporters to some extent. I mean, you don't know where to begin with that. I mean, you talk about higher bar. Court of arbitration support is not a higher bar, it's a lower bar. And the charges they were asked to contend with were different. And UEFA's representation in that hearing was vastly diminished because as far as they were concerned, they've done their job in the first hearing and they weren't that motivated to do anything else. when he talks about AP, they did what they should have done with PSR, which is challenged the rules. Associated party transactions, Man City came up with a better set of rules and asked the Premier League to rewrite their rules and they were right to do so. That's not the same as being charged with a series of offenses. When he talks about courts of law, it's not in a court of law. It's not subjudicereia. The only reason people keep their trap shut about it is because they're terrified of Man City's ownership suffro because that's how they operate. They're adversarial. So the sheer scale of what he thinks he understands with due respect to his loyalty, which he should be loyal to his team, they should not stop continue to support the team. But this idea that Manchester City, it's the Premier League against Man City, it's a conspiracy theory. It is completely wrong. It's football against Man City. What they are doing at this moment in time is they're taking the national game. Irrespective of whether I think these rules are unjust, there's a part of me that doesn't want to fall down this rabbit hole. If you introduce unjust rules, don't be surprised when people behave unjustly. That's not a validation of what they've done, but it's an unfairness because Chelsea are the worst offenders in far as I'm concerned because Chelsea were allowed to be in the room. Chelsea were allowed to spend as much money as they wanted for six or seven years to build their club up and yet they still cheated when they were in the room. Man City tried to get in the room and cheated to be in that room by the very nature of what they've been found guilty of. This, you know, this idea that somehow there's a conspiracy. Yeah, I think the rules were introduced in 2009 was designed to stop another club coming into the room. I think that's absolutely right. But that doesn't mean that Man City get to break the rules and then get their fans to drink the Kool-Aid behind the idea. And we're beginning to find out this wonderful philanthropic organization that was only there for Man City have made billions of pounds out of property in Manchester as a result of Sweetheart deals. And you're going to pair this back. But what you're going to see is a campaign of misdirection and redirection by Manchester City, left, right, and center. It's leaking into the public domain. It's not being leaked massively. If anyone's doing leaking, it's Manchester City talking about those things. >> Martin, off the back of what Simon's saying, do you ever see a time probably probably post appeal? I'm thinking >> when some of those same fans will be like, "Right, we're going to hold this football club of ours and our owners to account here." >> No, I don't think so. Cuz I think they've really enjoyed the journey. I think they're separating the football, what's happened on the pitch and all those wonderful performances from what the reality that it was financial doping and they're not prepared to take that on board. It's very difficult, you know, when you talk as a player because like Simon said, it's a very good thing that that football they've sinned against football. That's basically what they've done. But it's hard to look at me and think that I'm not involved as an Arsenal man sitting here particularly and and every time a Man City fan, they hear my voice and they think, "Oh, conspiracy. They think he's he's against us." No, no. They'll have their judgment day and let's see. Let's see what happens to Man City as a football club. >> Do you rub your hands for that judgment day? >> Not at all. I take no pleasure in this because it's a hollow feeling now watching Man City play. Maybe in time it will get better for me. I watch >> it's a hollow feeling watching them play. You're finding that >> particularly against Liverpool. Found that really difficult. Um it was easier for me at the weekend and people say, "Oh, they don't want to commentate on the I get it, but they'll get over it and we'll go back. We'll get back to the football." But they're damaging our game, really the fabric of the game. And so it's like we need an answer to this as soon as we can, Jim. But look, we're not we're not against Man City. These are fair competition rules that you've broken >> and they are not going to help the case. They're not going to they're they've had their best version of themselves, right? They had this idea that somehow they wanted to slow the process down to be able to to look at it because they didn't think it was fair. They had a huge trial and as a result of commission um and as a result of that >> significant parts of their witnesses were called liars. This is not language that you use freely without consequence. This is not the language that legal minds throw around without some very solid ability to do so. So you've got evidence that's been put in by witnesses that have been basically said are outright liars that were prepared to lie. >> Yeah. >> It's interesting. You don't hear anything about BDO the auditors being bring into the equation because you'd think they'd want to be part of fun given they've signed off accounts that have now been considered to be fraudulent. So with that in mind there's a whole raft of stuff but Man City's job surely with their irrefutable evidence and absolute propensity to want to clear their name wouldn't surely be to make this case longer but longer they're going to make it the current appeal process they could be caught within that quite easy if they wanted to be. They don't want to be. So this is the reasons why there's a distinct possibility that some poor bugger is going to present this team with a Premier League title at the end of the year. >> If we can take it back to the money that was put in, the 830 million artificially put in and then turn that into players, >> turn that into a de Bruyne, turn it into a Sterling, turn it into an Aguero, you'll get some idea of what that club might not have been able to achieve without those players there. >> Okay, Martin. So the fan group 1894 fan group for one and it's just one uh have said that they back their owners and they back the owner stance around the guilty verdict. So they're with them all the way. Um are there any Manchester City fans out there saying well I'm I'm maybe not in that camp uh blindly following the team as it were blindly following uh the owners and the ownership at this particular time while the appeal process is ongoing. Should City fans be holding their owners more to account? That's the bottom line question. Do you want to join us? Please do. We're getting um Manchester City fans take on this ongoing process at the moment. While it's all going well on the field of play and it is Manchester City played 717 unbeaten, top of the shop in the Premier League. Behind the scenes, many fans including the supporters who are part of the 1894 group. We heard the spokesperson Dan Friend speaking to us saying that they back the owners. They are with the owners throughout this process. So um keen to gauge the views of many city fans this morning. While the team's excelling on the pitch, what is your take on what is going on behind the scenes? And are you still totally with your ownership? 03717234. Gary, big Manchester City fan. Good morning to you. Gary, you're first up. You still with the owners? >> Good morning, lads. Good morning. >> Morning, Gary. >> Right, listen. I've been a City fan since 1969. So, I'm not a bandwagon merchant. Right. >> Yeah. >> I've seen the good times, the bad times, and the good times again. Um, I've been telling United fans since that verdict came through, I can't defend it. I can't defend it. Yeah. As it stands, I can't defend it. Um, what if But there's an appeal. There's an appeal coming up and as an appeal's coming up, I'm hoping that it be minimized or it will be overturned naturally. I'm hoping that. >> Yeah. >> And if it is, I hope all you lot at talk sport give an apology out. Now, saying that, if I brought it, you're wondering about City behind a club. Let's bring something personal to you, Shell. All three of you, if your eldest lad and the police knock at your door, knock your door down and drag your lad off and accuse him of a heinous crime straight away as fathers are going to be in denial. Can't be. You've got the wrong lad. Surely not. It isn't. And then when he gets found guilty, it's I can't believe it. I can't believe it. It can't be true. He he'll be found innocent on an appeal and that's where we are in a way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> I get that. I don't get the apology that seemingly is required from us at Talk Sport. I don't get that. >> I'll tell I'll tell you I'll tell you why. >> Why >> you you drove you drove the Liverp Liverpool fans into a frenzy last week and City fans are being in the face. Now I accept that City's been found guilty and I'm disappointed as it stands now. What I'm not having is other supporters walking up to me in the face and calling me personally a cheat. And that is happening. And that's happening because of >> Are you surprise