"WHERE NEXT?" talkSPORT EXAMINES Roberto De Zerbi's Spurs FUTURE & Michael Carrick's Man Utd CONCERN

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talkSPORT debates whether Carrick or De Zerbi should be under more pressure before Man Utd v Spurs

The show previews Manchester United v Tottenham and focuses on the early-season pressure on Michael Carrick and Roberto De Zerbi. Most of the panel says neither should be judged after five games, but there is disagreement over why Carrick faces more sack talk; United's issues are framed as mentality and shot quality, while Spurs' are mentality, identity and club culture.

Alex Crook, Sam Matterface and Scott Minto discuss the latest on Manchester United and Spurs before they clash in the Premier League. Subscribe: https://youtube.com/c/talkSPORT?subconfirmation=1 🏆 Ready to win? Check out the latest prizes at talkSPORTwin.com Enjoyed this YouTube video? 😍 🖥️ talkSPORT's Website: https://talksport.com/ 📲 talkSPORT's X/Twitter: https://x.com/talkSPORT 📷 talkSPORT's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talksport/?hl=en 👤 talkSPORT's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/talkSPORT/ 📱 talkSPORT's Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@talksport ? 🔴 Download the talkSPORT app HERE! - https://talksport.com/apps/ 🔎 Want to see if you feature on our YouTube channel? Check out our Best talkSPORT callers playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFVMnSsi04LGLa9pS9xDvme-Gjmlu2 manunited mufc spurs coys talkSPORT PremierLeague

Transcript

Tomorrow the big one 12th against 20th at Old Trafford 530 Manchester United have won one league game all season 5-2 against Ipswich drawn two lost two. Tottenham bottom with two draws and three defeats. Two goals scored all season and the last of those defeats was 3-2 at home to Aston Villa. They were 3-0 down. In fact, they hadn't scored a a goal until Connor Gallagher got them a consolation. These are two enormous clubs having a bit of a difficult autumn and by 7:30 tomorrow one of them is going to feel well hopefully a lot better. Jamie O'Hara is on the game day phoning at exactly the same time. I'm sure they schedule these matches for that reason. Um who needs it more? >> I say it's good a cookie to finish his donut and get back in just on time. So >> he hasn't finished texting. So that's why I asked. >> No, I was I was just still perplexed about your description as two enormous clubs. One enormous club and Tottenham would be my uh description of this. Why do they call you salty again? >> Go on, Scott. Carry on. >> Um I look clearly it's massive for both. There's no doubt about it with the start of the season, but can't be going down the the the route of Elsako and all that kind of thing. I'm sorry. It's just, you know, these these managers have got to be given time. Roberto Deser's just got in the door. I did think he'd start the season better. He had the end of last season to judge who's the right characters as not. Had the hold of the summer to sort out a transfer window. over spent, but I think they needed to. And then they had the whole preseason, obviously with the World Cup involved as well to to get his his tactics over and I think I was expecting a much better start. And the stat of they haven't won a game in 48 matches in all competitions when they've conceded the first goal. I think says so much about what he talked about before the break and that word is meant. >> But I was going to ask you about that. That was my next question. It's not necessarily about the tactics. It's not necessarily about the personnel that they've bought in. Is it not just about the mentality of this group that is the biggest concern? >> Absolutely. I mean, goals are a problem, but again, it's all linked to to mentality. >> Um, and I think again, I heard someone sort of say, "Oh, they brought too many players in." No, no, no. They really needed to to to get rid of as many as possible and bring different players in. And yet some of those players in who have done really well at previous clubs look like they're already got the Spurs disease as Jamie Aara to be fair to him, you know, calls it or Jace Kundi does as well. So it's a massive problem. There's something wrong with that club. It's it's it's a massive club. It's got the best stadium in the country. Um it's got a brilliant training ground and yet it seems to be whenever anybody pulls on that Spurs shirt, it weighs 5 kilos. And and that's something he has to sort out. And that first goal is always important if you look at stat packs, but it's more important than ever for a team like Spurs right now. >> For both. I mean, you talk about Tottenham's mentality for me, United's mentality is still a big issue. We were at Fulham last game before the international break. They didn't play badly, but they didn't play particularly well until they fell a goal behind. Then all of a sudden, the players upped it a gear and there was only one team in it for the last, >> but they should have won the game before that. And if you I watched it back next morning because we had a big discussion about it was the start of the international break. We did a big deep dive into Manchester United on the >> You came out with some very positive stats. >> I gave you some positivity, didn't I? >> I didn't believe you, but the stats are there. >> Well, they they shoot more than anybody else in the league. 113 shots, more than anybody in the division. But the average quality of those shots and those chances is the fourth worst in the division. Better only than Hull Forest and Tottenham. So basically, they'd need a decent center forward. If Sesh goes back and fit, they've got a chance. >> Is he going to be though? I mean that shin injury that he picked up at the end of last season seems to continue to be a problem. If he isn't fully fit then I think there's a strong argument for putting Marcus Rashford through the middle putting fit >> on the left. I think he was at paddle your paddle club the other day. I think he's going to be okay. Um yeah Rashford up front Kun on the left hand side because he operates better from that position. Ahmad by all accounts is is fit enough replacing the squad but probably under the bench. You put Bumo back on the right and Fernandez in the 10. that just looks a better balanced front. >> I think he'll be okay. >> He came off didn't for Portugal and he came back early. >> Yeah, he's been a massive player for them obviously, but but you're right. You can talk about mentality for Manchester United as well. It is still the the biggest club in the country and when you you think about again talk about the the weight of that shirt. Are they a be able to handle it? But when again when people talk about Mickey Carrick since he's taken over, I know last season they had no Europe and this season is a little bit different. Of course it is. But only Arsenal and City have taken more points than United since when Mickey Carrick took over. So just for the fact of a bad start, let's not start talking about, you know, >> and we'll discuss that in the next section of the program because I think that is a really key point actually. But I want to just focus on that that that data 113 shots, one win. Is that bad luck or is that a team that gets into a position and shoots because it can't think of anything else to do? >> No, it's it's about the quality of the shots. Definitely. There's no point in having just loads of numbers. You could be shooting from 40 yards and say, "Well, that's a shot." Well, how often are you going to score from there? >> I don't recall too many missed sitters over the course of the the first five. >> Well, you remember, but the Fulham game they hit the woodwork twice, three times. >> Yeah. One of them, I seem to remember, was a bit of a speculative effort, was it? >> Bruno Fernandez missed a guilt edge >> he should have scored. Yeah. >> My my my argument I mean before, do you remember before the break, you know, people were talking about um they're not running, they're lazy and and >> we've debunked that myth on the uh on the All Access. >> Right. Good. because there's no way that they're being told to press high and they're not pressing high. >> They're not. >> So, it's a deliberate tactic. >> It's a deliberate tactic. The question is then why? >> Because they've got passers in the team rather than run. >> Absolutely. They haven't got the physicality and they're trying to Mickey's trying to play to the strengths of the players that he has now. Has he been supported in the transfer window? In my opinion, no. They've only bolstered the midfield. Defense is still the same from what four years ago. So he's now thinking I can't ask these players apart from Brian and Burma in my opinion who's probably the only one who can do it to press really high and then when they do have the ball actually do what he wants them to do. So he's trying to be clever here. So >> you look at the statistics and I think you and I had a a private conversation about this as well is that the turnovers when they happen happen a little bit deeper but when they do go to press Manchester United they basically win the ball every time. So they know when they have to press, the triggers are set and when they do, they win it back. >> So, so, so without the ball, we can understand now. It's not that they're lazy. Actually, they're being told to do because of the the the the makeup of the team and the players that they have. But going back to your original question, >> that's not good. >> The shooting is not good. >> The quality of shots is not good enough. So, that's something that Mickey and he knows it's been a bad start to the season. So, he's got to try and sort out. It's not easy in the international break. Again, it's a complete reset, even more after 3 weeks, let alone two. So, this is a this is a massive game and a chance to reset for both sides. >> Deserve his happy place. Um, he won on his only previous Premier League visit here, 3-1 with Brighton in September 2023. Only four managers have ever won their first two away games at Old Trafford. Sam Alladise, Ronald Khman, Pep Guardiola, and Andonia. Uh and it was Crookie who reported in Dererby uh in April actually that Derby was sounded out uh by Manchester United before talking the taking the Spurs job and he was told he wasn't in the reckoning. >> Yes, correct. Um I think he he was >> a point to prove >> probably having been overlooked. I think he was certainly at the forefront of their minds when Eric Tenhog went as well but obviously went down a different route. I just think they maybe felt he was a bit too combustible a character maybe was too demanding financially. uh when you look at what Tottenham have thrown his way, but yeah, he'll certainly have a point to prove. I mean, being in charge of Brighton and beating Manchester United, whoever's in charge of Brighton, they tend to beat Manchester United, we've seen already this season. But yeah, certainly he's the type of character who's going to want to point the proof to the United hierarchy. I think based on what Scott said about the opening goal as well as far as Tottenham are concerned, I think we'll probably know who's going to win this game in the first 15 minutes, >> unless it's nil nil. >> No, no, no. I just I think you know who's going to win the game after the first goal. >> Yeah, I think that's the thing. I mean I think No, I think Spurs can draw the game even if they go down. I just they haven't been winning and that's been the problem. Home form is their massive problem. So it may be a slight advantage for them that actually all the pressure if things don't go well is going to be on the United >> record haven't in recent years. I think United won the home game last season after um our mate Romero got himself sent off. But before that, it had been a real famine for United in terms of positive results against Tottenham. >> Yeah. Uh just have a quick look at the uh statistics on >> and got a great result up there, didn't he? >> It was a six game winless run against Tottenham in the Premier League prior final in Bill B. >> Plus the dog and duck final. It's called the Europa League and you'd be lucky to be in it this this time around if you got to the final. United have had 113 shots, more than anyone. Crookie has had more shots than that since the international window and he's got a better conversion rate. Um, why is all the sack talk about Michael Carrick though? Because there's been a lot of pressure put on his shoulders. He's won 14 out of 24. Nobody's taken more points than him since January 2026. No one's even mentioning Roberto Deserby. He's won four of 14 and they've only scored two goals this season. They spent 334 million quid. We'll do that next. It's sport. It's Sam Madace. Alex Krook. Michael Carrick took inter room charge at Manchester United on the 13th of January. Got the job 22nd of May and in 24 matches has won 14, drawn five, and lost just five. Roberto Deserby walked in to Tottenham on the 31st of March, 5-year deal. 14 matches, won just four, drawn four, lost six. But a lot of talk about Michael Carrick being under pressure. Why has there not been as much pressure on Roberto Derby, do you think? Alex Crook, I think because of what he did last season in the eyes of Tottenham fans, saving them in the Premier League. Obviously, Spurs have invested a lot of money in this particular manager, not just in terms of his wages, but in terms of giving him cart blanch when it comes to transfers. I think there's patience because he's made so many signings that it's going to take time to arrest this losing culture. And ultimately, he's inherited a team that finished 17th in each of the last two seasons. I guess you could say there was never going to be an overnight fix despite how much money he's been lavished. >> He's made 13 changes to his starting 11, the most in the league. Um the suggestion is that he doesn't really know his best 11 at this moment in time. He's the manager who got everything he asked for in his bottom of the table. Michael Carrick arguably didn't get enough in the transfer window. Explain to me why there's more pressure on one than the other. >> Well, we shouldn't be talking about either in terms of the the sack in my opinion. Um again the job that Mickey Carrick did last season yeah a caveat with uh not not having Europe but still it's Manchester United all the pressure we know what's gone on the circus that went on under Ruben Amarine as well off the fielders and and it certainly wasn't very good on it shouldn't be just on him it's five games into the season Sam it's not been a good start of course it isn't but we live in a world now where it's it's instant here and now people don't have any patience anymore and they don't realize actually in terms of I mean Mikuel Arteta is probably a perfect example. It doesn't mean to say that one size fits all but if you feel you got the right person give them the support and um and Arsenal certainly reaping the rewards. >> That's the key thing isn't it? Give him the support. >> Mickey's in my opinion Mickey hasn't been given the report uh the support. You look at the defense that they've got just not good enough. Should he be doing better for five points in five games? Yes, he knows that. Especially when you look at what those five games were. Two newly promoted sides. Fulham, Everton away, as we've already talked about, didn't have the best summer in terms of transfers and Manchester City with 10 men at home. >> And and it's a much more difficult October coming up with the games that they got. >> October. >> Roberto Deser's just got his feet under the door. Listen, these are these are both Titanics that are going to be taking time to turn around. >> Um Alan Sher said that he can't afford Roberto Deserby to go to Manchester United and lose two or 3 this weekend. But is the truth that actually Derby is safer probably than anyone? Because by sacking him or by pressure becoming on his shoulders, you're almost admitting that 334 million pounds worth of spent was spent on the wrong shopping list. >> Well, where on earth would you turn next if you if you're Tottenham? They obviously went for for Thomas Frank proven in the Premier League. Players, fans never really took to him, arguably left him in charge for too long. The Eagle twodoor appointment was bonkers quite frankly and had they have gone down I think that would have been the single worst decision they've made. Deserby came in in the nick of time but they built the whole future of the club around this manager which is not really the modern way in 2026. The best run club. >> It's not really the Tottenham way. >> It doesn't matter who's in charge because you have a structure above them. That means if as managers come and go they know who the replacement is going to be and actually the team is not molded to a particular manager. It is in Tottenham's case. So I think that it has to work. But success for Tottenham, Sam, let me just ask you this because Jamie O'Hara, we got that mock clip, haven't we, of him saying Tottenham are back. >> Back to where? >> We said that before the season started, didn't we? >> Well, no, we said it. He said it numerous times, but but where is back for Tottenham? >> I thought I thought >> winning trophies getting back into European competition on a regular basis. I mean, they they they won a trophy most recently in two when they beat in the European League final. Um, they finished consistently in the Champions League places under Moritzio Pochettino. >> But what is success now? Bearing in mind they finished 17th the last two seasons. I think >> I thought I thought at the start of the season they'd have a great chance for top eight. I'm revising that now with the with the start that they've had, but it's still not impossible. But top half from two seasons in 17th >> and it can be done. Look at Villa last turned it around after a bad start. >> Yeah, I mean Villa went on a run that even Villa aren't going to do again this season when you think about where they were after four or five matches. But I mean they have spent a lot of money and it does need to be turned around and I was speaking to to Matt Latissier um a few weeks ago and he said it could might not might take until Christmas. >> I mean this is what we're talking about. >> Sometimes you do have to have a bit of patience and the reason for the conversation really is is that actually neither of these two managers should be under pressure because realistically >> yeah they are. But we've played five games and you've just said last year Una's team hadn't scored a goal after five games, but then they went on this brilliant run and ended up finishing fourth in the Premier League and ended up winning the Europa League. So like things can turn around very quickly and actually if you've got a manager who's very clear in their tactical framework and needs time to get that across to players especially a lot of new players which is what happened with Tottenham then it might well end up running on to later in in the season before they >> seen that because one of the criticisms that Troy Deini has on our podcast and actually he called this out but before a ball was kicked he thought everyone was getting far too carried away about Tottenham signings he pointed actually why the team's got worse not better but he doesn't see an identity in this Tottenham team under deserve. Have you seen it yet? No. Well, we're not seeing it again because they're feeling so much under pressure, but we know there is an identity. Roberto Deserby. I felt he did well. He kind of diluted himself at the end of last season because when you're really under pressure, you can't be playing that deserving ball. >> But the players at this moment in time, which is why I thought, okay, not everyone came in at the start of preseason, but he'd have a bit more time to implement his his style of play. Remember when he went to Brighton, it took a little bit of time to do that. And it might just here, especially with the pressure that is playing for for Tottenham at the moment, what's happened in the last couple of seasons. But whatever we think, it doesn't really matter. It's all about the owners. But the owners would look an absolute shambles if they were to for the reasons that Crookie gave if they were to get rid of Roberto Deserby after Thomas Frank getting rid of Daniel Levy. First of all, Thomas Frank, Eagle Tuda, not even six months in the job with Deserby after giving a 5-year contract and nearly400 million pounds spent. They would look absolute idiots. They can't afford to do that. I wouldn't go as far as to say they put all the money on black and it's going red, but they have put all their money on black and let's wait to see how it comes out. But give Deserby time. Just on Carrick, it's worth reiterating. He's he's actually lost one fewer game than Deserby. He's had 24 matches. Deserby's had 14. And there doesn't seem to be any noises coming out of Old Trafford that his position at this stage is under serious threat in terms of the board. But this next period of games is huge. As I mentioned, it was a relatively kind start to the season fixtures wise. They haven't been able to maximize that. Tottenham this weekend, which is a pressure game for both teams given their starts. Then they go to Atletico Madrid. Atleti second in La Liga. T