"VERY UNLIKELY!" Simon Jordan & Stefan Borson REACT to Oliver Holt's REPORT on Man City's SANCTIONS!

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talkSPORT panel discusses Oliver Holt's report on possible heavy sanctions for Manchester City

The show reacts to Oliver Holt's report that Manchester City could face a huge points deduction and relegation to the Championship. The panel focuses on whether such a punishment is realistic, how long the process will take, and whether City should be suspended pending appeal. Stefan Borson expects a quick resolution is very unlikely, while Simon Jordan doubts City will accept culpability easily and argues any sanction needs an off-ramp; a caller and Jordan clash over suspending City during the appeal.

Simon Jordan and Jim White were joined by Stefan Borson to react to Oliver Holt's report on Manchester City's potential sanctions this season. Subscribe: https://youtube.com/c/talkSPORT Enjoyed this YouTube video? 😍 🖥️ talkSPORT's Website: https://talksport.com/ 📲 talkSPORT's Twitter: https://twitter.com/talkSPORT 📷 talkSPORT's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talksport/?hl=en 👤 talkSPORT's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/talkSPORT/ 📱 talkSPORT's Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@talksport ? 🔴 Download the talkSPORT app HERE! - https://talksport.com/apps/ 🔎 Want to see if you feature on our YouTube channel? Check out our Best talkSPORT callers playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFVMnSsi04LGLa9pS9xDvme-Gjmlu2 talkSPORT PremierLeague manchestercity

Transcript

Ollie Holt Nail. Ollie Holt, a journalist you respect. I certainly do. You >> um he's been speaking about Manchester City. He says insiders suggest the most likely punishment is a a swinging points deduction which will ensure City's relegation to the Championship plus a huge fine. It is also possible that the punishment would include a further points deduction that would effectively confine City to the Championship for at least one more season. City of course under appeal at the moment after being found guilty of financial breaches uh 114 of 115 charges. What about O and what he's saying um a swinging points deduction ensuring City's relegation to the championship. Stefan's going to join us in a second. Simon, >> do you think that kind of punishment fits the bill? >> Um I don't know. I mean what I'm not sure of is that they're at this stage. I'm not sure how they would have got to this point because that would mean that the ownership has already accepted culpability or responsibility which is the very thing that they don't want to do in their ownership because it it kind of undermines the entire purpose of their ownership. So I'd be very surprised. I was suggesting at some point that maybe the adversarial presentation at the front of house was was hiding a negotiation back of house. I don't think that's the case. That's what they should be doing try and mediate it. But I don't I don't think we're at that point. So, I'm surprised now that might be Manchester City's insiders briefing into the market to so that the market and the independent commission and others uh that are listening to this see that as an exit strategy that Manchester City might be prepared to accept without having to have a fight against it. >> Well, the thing is that up himself, would he? >> No, but I don't. No, of course he wouldn't. And he has to have reasonable sources, but that doesn't mean that the reasonable sources are right. >> Let's bring in Stephan Barson, um, football finance expert. of course that and many other things. Stephan, good morning. Simon was talking there about I'm not sure if we're at that point. At what point, Stefan, are we at? Good morning. Morning. Um well, I mean, this is the first thing to say is I think it's quite hard to know exactly um where we are in in the whole uh order of process because the appeal may or may not go before a sanction hearing. It seems to me that it would be sensible for the parties to agree that the the appeal to the liability part I I how many of the 115 city uh are found to have breached that appeal would take place before we have a sanction hearing. Um now [clears throat] there's also just the practical aspect of actually getting the same people to go through two separate processes. So the sanction hearing will have both sides legal teams presenting based on the independent commission's findings uh their position on sanction and that will be the starting point and also the mitigating and aggravating factors that in itself is a process that needs preparation and uh time for the uh for the lawyers a and obviously the availability of the independent commission that's found against city so What I don't think can happen is the situation where effectively they try and run both processes simultaneously because the preparation time required for the full appeal of the liability phase i.e. the the the important whether they've done it or not that to me can't be run whilst they're also being distracted on a sanction hearing. So I think there's a lot of talk about how this is going to go very quick and I did hear Martin yesterday talk about that. >> Yeah, >> it just seems to me very unlikely that that's the case. >> Ollie Hold also says Stefan, it is time for those imposing the punishment to try to find a solution that represents middle ground. Middle ground. Do do you recognize that? Do you go with that? >> Well well look what is middle ground first of all? I mean obviously these are exceptional charges uh if proven ultimately and I think the better way to do it is to reverse out and say well we've looked at how the general approach to sanction is undertaken in these cases. It came up in the Everton case. It came up in the Notting Forest case. It came up in the Derby case historically. And really what has to happen is the punishment needs to be proportionate um and reasonably necessary to achieve the aims of the uh of the sanction process and that will be not only about breaches of the actual rules and PSR but about the integrity of the competition. Stephanie. >> And what they won't do, well, just just just to finish, what they won't do, what they won't do is is go deliberately excessive just to be punitive. That they will be looking to try and find that balance of the least necessary punishment to achieve the aims of sanction. >> Procedurally, I mean, I know we're not in a court of law, but you would at some point expect to get a sanction and appeal against a sanction. My my view and I don't know what yours is, is there's no indication at any point in any space or any time that Manchester City would accept any kind of sanction full stop because a sanction is to some extent an acceptance from their side if they deal that through that they were guilty of some of the allegations that were made against them if not all of them. I mean, do you think the Premier League's approach to this is mindful of the opposition? Because if you went to a sanction hearing first, Man City would be in a situation where they don't accept any of the sanctions. So wouldn't it be better procedurally for the Premier League to nail the coffin shut by letting them have their appeal against the liability? If the Premier League wins the appeal, then they've exhausted all the processes within the football framework. What they do outside of that is up to them, but they've exhausted the process and then the Premier League will put their sanction in place. And of course, they then argue about the sanction, won't they? >> Yeah. I think the problem that everybody's got is that there's a lot of pressure for this to be done and dusted now. And it's understandable of course. Um but I think what it misses and certainly the Premier League, it must be the Premier League are pushing the uh the briefing and the narrative that the latest rule book applies and the latest rule book applies even without amendment in that the hearing can happen within 12 weeks and then there has a decision very quickly and the hearing itself is only 5 days. I think that is is very unlikely to be the case and certainly the parties do not agree even which rule book is at this point. So there's going to have to be a hearing even to decide that part. Now part of the problem city have got in the procedural matters around anything that goes in front of the independent commission is that they're very against them. So the independent commission is very against city right now. those matters that go in front of an appeal panel, they may be dealt with differently. But to answer your question, generally in terms of process, it would make sense for them to deal with liability then to then for it to be passed back to the independent commission for sanction. City will then inevitably if they're found to have breached any of 115, which looks inevitable, they will then appeal the independent commission's sanction hearing and that will then go to a further appeal. So there will there's still a process and that's why I think the idea that it can all be squashed into the remaining part of the season although although in a kind of logical sense there's loads of time left the reality is we are on the 20th of October there are there are probably a thousand pages in that decision. City have already said that their approach on appeal is going to be forensic and is going to look not only at law principle but also on the facts of the case and yes it won't be a a re a rehearing but I think it's safe to say that it will be a very detailed analysis of the situation given the consequences of a finding it appealing against them. >> Stephanie hold also says and is there logic in this before you leave us. It is thought that the Premier League are pressing for City's punishment to be announced before the result of their appeal, which is unlikely to be decided before the end of January. Does that make sense? >> Well, well, it it makes sense in terms of what's being briefed. Yes. Because what they're saying is that we are just going to get on with these things as quickly as possible. What I'm saying is my information is things are not all rosy and agreed between the parties about rule books about processes about staging and therefore there's going to have to be hearings that decide the order of events and most importantly I think for this discussion the timing that's going to be allocated to each of these bits of the process. It's would not surprise me for example if rather than 5 days of appeal for the liability part we need four weeks minimum you know maybe even more you know these are very very serious matters there's very very serious findings so far from the independent commission and and city will say that fairness demands that they're given as much time as necessary in that appeal process to go through all of their arguments. >> Yeah. Yeah. Steph, is there anything to stop the Premier League handing down a sanction? Now, >> I think so. Yeah, because I think it if it was something that was irreversible, um, i.e. went through the end of the season, relegated them, and then was corrected later. City would argue that that was irreparable damage. And therefore I think it's unlikely that any sanction uh is is effectively um implemented before the expiry of the appeal process on sanction. So I do think that it seems to me that you would have to go through the various stages, forget the the possibility of of out um challenges outside of the Premier League processes, but within the Premier League processes, I think they do have to complete those appeals >> before the actual punishment is is laid down on City. Um I I just can't see any other way because City will say that until um until the appeal has been decided there is risk of of irreparable harm and I think that's something that they will accept. >> Stephan, thank you very much for joining us. Stephan Borson with us live this morning. Going to pick over the bones with some of that with Simon when we come back the other side of this. Of course, we have almost exhausted ourselves looking at the situation surrounding Manchester City, who are doing brilliantly on the pitch. Well done, Moresa and the team. But off the pitch, uh, the conversations go on. Found guilty of 114 of 115 charges. What is the likely punishment going to be? Ollie Holt in the Mail. Insider suggests the most likely punishment is a swinging point deduction, which will ensure City's relegation to the Championship plus a huge fine. Oie goes on. Simon, it is time for those imposing the punishment to try to find a solution that represents middle ground. There is very little point in pursuing a treaty of Versailles type punishment. The desire to humiliate the defeated might satisfy a base instinct, but does very little for the future well-being of the body politic city must be punished, of course, but they must also be given a pathway towards rehabilitation. Well, that's funny, Ollie, because you were venerating last week about the idea that they should be burned at the stake and taken off television. They shouldn't even be broadcast. The broadcaster should not be allowed. I mean, now we're going to the middle ground of what I've always said, which is in the greater scheme of things, as much as people want bloodletting, the best way to find, you got to give these guys, as much as they don't deserve it, some degree of off-ramp. No one will like to hear this, but the ownership is being this this case against Manchester City is being handled in a certain way because the nature of the ownership because you've got a very unique ownership which you should never have allowed to been in the football in the framework in the first place which is a nation state. You can make the arguments that nation states should be able to own assets because they do in other walks of life but not cultural valuable assets and not one where they are seeking to dismantle the structure which is what they're doing. They are effectively and when we get this ridiculousness of the man the mayor of Manchester taking a Manchester City representative on a trade envoy uh it makes it makes me scratch my head. You've got a football club that's effectively stra bringing the entire framework of the national game into into a disrepute and then you're bringing them on a trade envoy because perhaps you're fearful of the fact that the United Emirates will take their money out of the investments. >> So why is there a toning down if indeed there is a toning down of all his approach to this? Because people because people grow up and stop the hysteria and suddenly smell the coffee and realize that actually it's a bit silly to be barking at the moon. It's a bit silly to to turn around and say that you should take Man City off television because all of a sudden you realize that the broadcast is the first thing they'll turn around and do is say the football isn't meeting its obligations and they'll start to pair back their financial commitments. People start to realize that actually it's very good to be at the front of the queue to meet out the punishment when you are in a populous position of everyone agreeing with you. when it starts to become a bit more convoluted and a bit more complicated and you start to realize that there are layers to these things and realistically speaking in an ideal world you'd like to be able to deal with Man City in the most harshest of fashion and make their arrogant disrespectful dismissive ownership con have a consequence >> well I think on a daily basis football fans are thinking what is going to happen bunch of questions uh but many of them unanswerable at this time Kevin's an Arsenal fan who wants to throw something at you Simon not literally Kevin, good morning. What do you want to say? >> Good morning, lads. How are you doing? Good. Thank you. Thanks for Thanks for taking the call. Yeah. Yeah. A great show as always. Uh yeah, City seems to be the the kind of the the gift that keeps on giving for from the point of view of the media anyway. Um but h but look, here's the thing. If a footballer is found um to have taken drugs or to have taken bribes, he is suspended for it pending his appeal. But he does is not allowed play. Tennis players the same. Lance Armstrong the same. We have this situation now and I can't understand why there is no consideration for saying city guys you've been found guilty not not guilty you've been found guilty 114 times for now pending your appeal you're now suspended you're not playing in the premiership pending your appeal temporary suspension until the appeal is heard after the appeal taken out >> but you deconstruct the league then because all of a sudden you've taken a team out whose results previous could be dis could be then discounted if you wanted to take it to the full uh it's full zenith or you could then be d deconstructing the amount of games that teams are playing in. So the whole league it's one thing taking a player out of a team and consequence in the player. It's another thing taking a team out of a league which has ramifications through the entire integrity of a league because then all of a sudden the games that they've played did they count the games that they would have played do you now play a 37 game season? What how how do you break it up and make it up? You've got to get to the point where you can sanction these people as quickly as possible or let them have their appeal and get through it as quickly as possible. I don't think pulling them out given that there is an appeal process that doesn't provide for an instantaneous suspension is the answer that legally stands up as much as it might seem pretty obvious but it isn't. >> Kevin, thanks for your call. Simon Olly Hol seems to suggest relegation to the championship where they would stay not for one but two seasons would be fair. Do you think that? Well, >> I don't know. I mean again I mean we are we're flying a kite. I don't know what their what the gift of the Premier League is to force point sanctions in the Championship. You will recall that teams that have been promoted didn't take point sanctions up to the Premier League. They get them they come back down again. So if Southampton were to go up again or I think when if Southampton had somehow find their way through their problems um they would have been sanctioned in the Championship in the same way that previous clubs have done. So this idea that we can just you can sanction them as a Premier League club. I don't know whether Stefan will be better equipped to answer this. I don't know whether you can as a Premier League enforce a point >> they've got to agree to it. >> They've got to agree to it and the the might not might not be a straight line for that particular purpose because the clubs in the championship might turn around and say hang on you know we we want we want we want a sanction on them so they can drop down out of the championship as well. >> People who've been there don't forget Mr. Parker from Swindon. I like how you describe yourself Mr. Pacqua. Good morning to you. City should be put down to League Two with a couple hundred points deduction so they remain there for a good few seasons. Given that Swindon were given a two-tier relegation from the old first division for 35 charges, >> then what should happen to City and City, as Simon says, haven't cooperated at any point. So all of that needs to be considered. But they were relegated from a construct that was all Football League. The Premier League is a separate entity. Premier League doesn't have the gift to bounce them down two divisions. Yeah. it only has the gift to perhaps relegate them from the Premier League and there on becomes a discussions with the EFL and how they consider it to be part and parcel of their responsibility to deal with the Premier League's mess.