Assessing The Manchester City Guilty Verdict! | Saturday Social

Sky Sports Premier League

Sky Sports panel debates the Manchester City verdict: season, sanctions, legacies and fans

The show debates the fallout from the independent commission's finding that Manchester City breached Premier League financial rules, using yes-or-no prompts to cover the season, sanctions, player exits, Guardiola's and former players' legacies, and fans. The panel is sharply divided: Buvey stresses City's squad and on-pitch achievements, Flex demands severe consequences and says everything is tainted, while Flav is more sympathetic to ordinary fans.

► Subscribe to Sky Sports Premier League: https://bit.ly/SubscribeSkySportsPL ► Watch Sky Sports with NOW: https://bit.ly/NOWPremierLeagueYT This week on Saturday Social Joe Thomlinson and Adam Smith are joined by Buvey, Flex, and Flav. During the International break an independent Premier League Commission has found Manchester City in breach of the Premier League’s financial rules. City deny wrongdoing and have lodged an appeal against the findings. So we've got our guests to assess the Manchester City verdict. premierleague football saturdaysocial Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:35 Could this verdict derail Man City's season? 03:24 Would a points deduction be a suitable punishment? 09:45 In the possible event of sanctions do you think some players would leave? 12:06 Does the verdict affect Pep Guardiola's legacy? 18:36 Does the verdict affect former player's legacies? 22:35 Do you feel sorry for Man City fans? ► Premier League highlights: https://bit.ly/PL2627HL ► MNF, FNF, SNF & Super Sunday analysis: https://bit.ly/SkyMatchAnalysis ► Gary Neville Podcast: https://bit.ly/GaryNevillePodcast ► Saturday Social: https://bit.ly/SkySaturdaySocial ► Buy this season’s shirts: https://bit.ly/SkySportsShop More from Sky Sports on YouTube: ► Sky Sports: http://bit.ly/SkySportsSub ► Sky Sports Boxing: http://bit.ly/SSBoxingSub ► Sky Sports Cricket: http://bit.ly/SubscribeSkyCricket ► Sky Sports Darts: https://bit.ly/SubSkySportsDarts ► Sky Sports Football: http://bit.ly/SSFootballSub ► Sky Sports F1: http://bit.ly/SubscribeSkyF1 ► Sky Sports Golf: https://bit.ly/SubscribeSkySportsGolf ► Sky Sports News: http://bit.ly/SkySportsNewsSub ► Sky Sports Retro: http://bit.ly/SkySportsRetroSub ► Sky Sports WSL: https://bit.ly/SubscribeSkySportsWSL ► Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SkySportsFootball ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/skysportsfootball ► TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@skysportsfootball ► X: https://x.com/SkySportsPL ► Website: https://www.skysports.com ► To enquire…

Transcript

Okay, there is only one place to start and that is by talking about Manchester City. Now, during the international break, an independent Premier League commission has found Manchester City in breach of the Premier League's financial rules. Now, City deny wrongdoing and have lodged an appeal against the findings. We've got Booby Flex and Flav with us where we'll be assessing the Manchester City verdict. Joe, >> yeah, absolutely. We've got a series of questions we're going to pose to the boys. You've got your paddles, yes or no. You're going to have to get off the fence and give us an answer to each statement. Where do we want to start? >> Yes. Let's start with our first statement. Get your paddles at the ready, lads. The first one is as follows. Could this verdict derail Manchester City's season? What do you think? >> Let's see them all at the same time. >> Oh, okay. Bit of disagreement. Let's go, Flex. Go you first cuz you've gone Yes. The only one. >> It It's not that it definitely will, but the the question was could it? And it absolutely could because what we haven't this is unprecedented, right? We haven't seen this type of situation happen in football, especially in our in our league. >> And we're going to get a a taste of what Manchester City are like under this type of pressure and scrutiny um and intensity um that they're going to face from many other fan bases uh in the games that they have to go and play away from home. I think the Etiad is a different kettle of fish. It could actually be a lot harder to go there. Um but also players as well. Um how are players going to be affected by what's going on? Enzo Moresa has spoken quite well I thought actually considering what's going on um about the players kind of blocking it out but it's one thing to to put that out there but when you cross that white line >> what is that actually like and I just think there's got to be a in the armor somewhere for Manchester. Yeah, for that context in that end yesterday in yesterday's press conference talking about the fact the environment from the players is nice references their top of the league. So from what he's saying it won't but you've gone with no obviously Man City top of the league currently the only team with an 100% record. You don't think it it will derail them at all? >> Obviously at the moment we're not talking about point deduction. We haven't seen that. There's still an appeal process. If if a point seduction was to happen, which is a realistic and proportionate potential response after we hear from the appeal process, then of course that would derail Manchester City's title charge or or season. Might obviously involve relegation as well. Right now, Manchester City top of the table. I genuinely believe Manchester City got the best team in the country. Currently top of the table, unbelievable record, best goal scoring European football and some of the best midfielders and and defenders in in the game. And I think Enzymes has come out and and given a brilliant response to Manchester City fans, an element of confidence, added a bit of levity to a very, you know, heavy situation. And ultimately, if Manchester City didn't have a good squad, I wouldn't believe that I I would believe that it would affect Manchester City season, but this squad is so good, it will still win football matches and it will smash Liverpool on Sunday 100%. >> Flav, have you been nodding to a lot of what Booby says that you've got no you don't think this verdict could derail Manchester City season in answer to the question? No, because in effect the I mean there's still time for this a long way for this to go and and appeals could mean that it pushes into the end of next season. So we won't end of this season so we won't get necessarily a decision. I I think that's most likely to happen and the players are too good and they could use this as motivation like it could be the last time they win the Premier League in a long long long time. So what this is their chance. So I think actually Moresco will use this to galvanize and remotivate the players to say look the whole world is against us. We got to go and do it and I think it'll probably help them. >> Interesting. >> All right, next one. Obviously, City have appealed the findings, but if those findings are upheld, the question is really around sanctions, isn't it? So, would a points deduction be a suitable punishment? Yes or no? >> I mean, not just the points deduction. >> Let's discuss it. What would be >> a bare minimum? You would have to remove the board and the owners and they would need to sell the club. >> Okay. Um, I think a relegation to at least League Two. Um, I think if a points deduction, if it isn't that we chuck them out the league and it's a points deduction, because obviously the EFL don't have to accept Manchester City, then a points deduction over several seasons would probably be fair. >> You're shaking your head. >> I think removing the owners is is a really abstract concept and ultimately we can have massive criticisms about the board and and the way it's been run. I get that from a rival fans point of view, but the Manchester City owners are the fit and proper test. We can throw that at Manchester United's owners versus Manchester City's owners. So the idea of arbitrarily removing owners is obviously wishful thinking for >> pass either Manchester United who are now currently run in debt by over a billion pounds. That happened in the same week as 115. So we very be very quick to criticize Manchester City's owners and of course there's a lot of criticism coming from Manchester City fans if the appeal isn't upheld. But ultimately the big thing that we can talk about is a fine is a transfer ban and is of course points. Man City fans are honest about that. these massive kind of macro discussions about removing owners and taking Manchester City to the Vanorama North. These are these aren't proportionate in my honest opinion. I'm not being biased about that. Of course, it is. You are being biased about that cuz you're emotionally charged from it. What you should be doing, which which is what you would be doing to every other fan base. So, every single one of us in this situation is going, "How could you even still want those owners at your club after what they would have done should this situation remain as it is, Booby?" And you know, you would do that. and they absolutely cannot own a football club anymore. Um, should the appeal process go through and and this this verdict is I don't I don't see how you people seem to forget in this situation that it is the same uh club and all the 20 clubs that signed up to these rules. There's there's sort of this misconception >> the rules weirdly changed in a period of time when Manchester City were being successful. >> You signed up to them. Do you know what I agree with you? If Manchester City's owners, if Manchester City's owners have to get kicked out of English football, so too Manchester United's owners, so to Tottenham's owners, and everyone in the big sign, you tried to sign up for other, you know, the Super League, etc. No, no, let's be completely serious about it. Your owners are absolutely abhorent to the great institution of your football club. >> Talk about your football. >> Two wrongs. Two wrongs don't make a if you want to talk about that. >> Yeah, your own should be removed as well. What we are talking about are breaches that at this stage um there is a guilty verdict and pending appeal look like it potentially could be upheld. If this is upheld, if if this is upheld, what Manchester City fans are saying is basically come back to us for comment once the whole process has gone every person's right to do in every walk of >> life and that's absolutely fine. But should this remain upheld? I don't see >> where Manchester City fans can go in terms of saying it's okay to have this ownership that done. If anything, Ruby, you you should you should be fuming with them with with with what is >> I don't condone what I've heard from from the Premier League the Premier League and the independent commission's report is damning for the club and I've said that consistently for the last couple of weeks. But these massive arbitrary claims that the ownership isn't fit for for Manchester City. The Can I finish the point, please? Your owners are >> only if it's a good one. >> Okay. Your owners are far worse for such a massive football club than Manchester United. I've never heard you ever criticize about your owners ever. >> You've never Hold on. Why don't you Why don't you go about your owners? >> So, let me get this right. I said I said you could finish the point if it's a good point. >> Oh, thanks very much. This is your show, isn't it? This is your show. The f show. >> So, you just sat here. This is your big This is your big chance. Your big chance. You're wasting your big chance. >> I just want to get this right. I just want to get this right. >> You've been waiting all week for this opportunity. Let him make his point. >> Yeah. Can I Can I finish my point? >> Go for it. >> You've just sat here and said you've never heard of Manchester United fan or Manchester United. >> No. No. You You in particular. You in particular. You really haven't. >> You've never heard. Let's let his point. Go on. So, this is what I mean about we're we're moving the goalpost here. And this isn't even a personal attack on on yourself. What I'm talking about is >> trying to group the other uh clubs ownerships into the situation that Manchester City are in. You are because you're basically saying that, well, we've done this, which is the biggest thing that's ever been seen in English football, potentially football ever. But >> they what about that? What about that? What about that? That's my point. >> Well, but guess what? There's there's protest for Manchester United every week. There's no reason your club should be running debt by a billion pounds. These charges are not condone the charges on any level. >> Brie, why are the Manchester United fans outside Old Trafford every week asking for the removal of the Glazer ship owner the Glazer ownership? Why is that happen? >> Of course, lots of Manchester United fans are doing it. But it's very easy. It's very easy to pick at Manchester City's owners. I don't condone. >> We've done that without this type of allegation. >> You got to let me finish my point. Manchester City's I do not condone the situation for Manchester City and where where the owners have taken the club. But in the >> So, I can't even finish this point. These are massive these are these are the these are massive points and there's still lots of problems with ownership in this country from other football clubs. I don't condone Manchester City's owners in any way if the appeal isn't upheld. But Manchester City's owners are ambitious are pumping massive money into the football club and massive money into employment and into the the situation in that area of Manchester. >> I think we're dulging from the field. Um >> if those findings are upheld, what do you think a suitable punishment would be? Because you held no up. Should they be shooting the title? Because basically that's not enough. The points that the points deduction by itself first and foremost you have to if this is upheld they need to be stripped of every single thing they won in that in that period. That's it. Not handed to the other teams and give medals to other players. And as a football fan I'm never going to say I went to a parade to see Man United win the league when we didn't win it because City did things they shouldn't have done. So I don't I'm not particularly interested in that. That has to happen. I agree with Flav 100%. Yeah, >> the owners cannot pass a fit and proper test because if this is upheld, they would have been found in breaches of situations and laws that they signed up to. So they didn't uphold their end of the bargain. So there has to be serious ramific ramification for that. I think as well uh multiple points deductions in multiple seasons, not just one hit. I'm saying you start each season at minus 50, -30, - 40, whatever it may be, probably higher. And I think a transfer ban for a considerable amount of years as well. >> Fair enough. Fair enough. Something tells me they're not going to agree on that one entirely. Strong opinions there. Flex movie. Yeah. Okay. Let's move on to the next question there. We've got more to get. Lot to get through the movie. >> In the possible event of sanctions, do you think some players would leave? >> Of course. Yeah. >> That is a reality. >> All going with Yes. >> Of course it is. >> Go on. I I think the argument that the whole spine of Manchester City, if it's if it's one season of a massive point deduction in the Championship next season, I still think obviously a large part of the squad would stay. They're on massive contracts. Of course, a few players would want to leave and rightfully so. If it's a if it's what Flexer said, three, four, five years. Of course, I'm not naive enough to think they'd stay for three or four, five years. But my my honest response to it would be point selection this season, following season, the Championship. I think a lot of players would stay for one season. stay if that was the situation. >> Yeah, I think a lot of players would not not every single player you could see ends if Fernandez wanted to go to Real Madrid or or maybe Harland to Barcelona. You see these links of course, but I still think a massive proportion of the spine would stay for one season in the Championship. I do I do think that I don't think that's by saying that. >> What do you think, Cl? >> Yeah, I mean when Juventus went down, they didn't lose their entire squad. Some players stayed with them. Man City's C team would get promoted from the the Championship. So that's why that punishment isn't enough if it's eventually found guilty. uh and the the number of players leaving and the quality of players that leave is dependent on how harsh the uh the sanctions are. So none of them are staying if they go down to league 2. It's just a matter they don't deserve to have to go through four seasons of their career playing in lower league football where they shouldn't be there. >> Say he loves Manchester United Manchester United Manchester City all he wants because of his his dad and he's a City fan but there's no way he would love the club that much to stay >> would love to see Harland in League 2. It's not even fair. Yeah, exactly. No one's naive enough to think that about Harland. I mean, all you know, great Manchester United players wanted to leave in the past as well. It happens to every club. John Steven J want to go to Chelsea for a period of time. So, it does happen to every club. >> See, you got this unique way of trying to group people into your situation. Can Can I make this clear? >> It's a football point. It's relevant. Club legends leaving the time. Your club legend to different clubs. It's relevant. It's highly relevant. Frank went to Manchester City. No, no. Can I finish I'm not going to mention it for the rest of Manchester City. Frank Lampard is a Chelsea legend. He went to Manchester City. So the idea that I'm naive and thinking Harland would stay unequivocally at Manchester City. Exactly. So I'm not naive enough to think that I'm not grouping no one into nothing all of our teams into what the group. >> Well, let's see if he gets grouped in the next one. Uh and I think this is highly talked about online. >> Does the verdict affect Pep Guardiola's legacy? >> 100%. >> Boobs. You're flat out straight in there. No. >> Yeah, of course. He there's a period of overlap of about 18 months, two years in the charges. He won league titles after that, four in a row that had never been done in English football history that are outside of the 115 whether we like it or not. He's the greatest manager of all time and he beats Alex Ferguson without Manchester City. We can talk about Bayern. He dominated that. He spent maybe a load of money, but Barcelona is the real proof in the pudding. He schooled Manchester United in a way never seen before. legacy >> um the period that period of course it does but the titles afterwards his brand of football the way he revolutionized English football and got size in league 2 playing out from the back that's down to his genius as a football manager it's not down to the accounting in 2009 at Manchester >> it's not down to the players that he had >> he signed some brilliant players and he developed some brilliant players from the academy as well he developed them he's a genius manager and you know it scored your manager in two chancing finals in a way where sax Ferguson was shaking his hand completely nerv nervous wreck at Wembley and I love it >> love it >> so Okay. So if it doesn't if it doesn't so firstly it absolutely affects like this affects every single point Manchester City have won from then and I'm saying to present cuz I think what's happening here is is that the the period in question we know what the dates are. >> That's worth pointing out actually cuz you're both disagreeing on this. The um period judged by the independent commission includes Pep's first two seasons at Manchester City but you're having the debate on whether it affects the entire legacy >> 100%. And the reason why I feel uncomfortable as a fan in my opinion is because what we're talking about is that there is a new found legitimacy from 2018 to now, okay, that we're all supposed to just that I'm supposed to believe that essentially if if upheld would have been built off illegitimacy. So for me, everything that Manchester City have become and everything that they are post this period for me still stands for absolutely nothing. I'm sorry. Because if you're telling me that the way that Manchester City became compliant was was out of not being compliant, then what are we talking about here? How how can everything that stood after that and what it was built on essentially like you say it was built on sand as the phrase goes. >> Let's bring Flav in because you've been very patient in between these two. >> I'm not sure what I could add. >> No. >> Uh I think obviously it does impacts his legacy and impacts the legacy of everyone involved. Um it doesn't take away how good a manager Pep Pep Guardiola is and he is still within the question of being one of the greatest managers in Premier League history along with Alex Ferguson and the influence he had in his game with players that perhaps not all of them would be playing under him maybe. But you can't say that he wouldn't have achieved success at Manchester City regardless. >> Um do you think do you think he would have been at Manchester City? >> No. Well, not without the investment that they had. They did an incredible work in creating an environment for him to work in and the money and like I say if they are eventually found guilty after appeal that um that money definitely helped them accelerate at a degree that other clubs aren't able to. >> Where do you stand on that? You mentioned that the Soralix Pep debate. It's a debate that's been rumbling for years. Does that where were you at with that and does this affect any of >> I was actually I was actually if he stayed a bit longer and continued to achieve then it would have inevitably been Pep Guardiola over Alex Ferguson. I think but now it's it's not >> I mean as as a United fan obviously my answer's always been the same answer even before this >> um for for many reasons but just to stick to this because >> I'm not going to con convolute loads of different situations just to stick to this >> this completely throws this this exes out a discussion point like even to even not even a discussion >> they almost essentially wasn't managing in the same sport as far as I'm concerned that's how that's how that's how unprecedented this is it is the