Italy's Mess: Pirlo Won't Get the Job - Maldini And Leonardo Already Out?
Andrea Pirlo has confirmed he will not become Italy's next head coach after political backlash over his role as a brand ambassador for a Russian betting company. But that's not the only bombshell—Paolo Maldini and Leonardo could also be set to walk away, adding even more turmoil to Italian football. Here's everything you need to know about what's happening. Join the show by sending your comments!
Transcript
Welcome to a new episode of the Football Italia live show. I'm Lorenzo Bettini. This is a show that was meant to be very very different than the one that you're going to see today. Join me as usual, the great Richard Hall. Ciao Richard, thank you for joining me. >> No problem. Unlike certain people, I'm actually allowed to join. So, yeah, that's a >> [laughter] >> That's a start at least. We planned it correctly. >> Guys, let's wrap up everything. Today was supposed to be the day Andrea Pirlo was confirmed as the new Italy national team coach. It won't happen. As you can read here, this morning Pirlo confirmed that he is no longer a candidate for the Italian national team head coach. But, this is not something that at least officially has to do with sporting matters because over the weekend, after that Pirlo had agreed a four-year deal with the FIGC, or at least with Maldini and Leonardo, there were reactions, especially from the political world, and Italian politicians criticizing Pirlo for an agreement as a brand ambassador of a betting Russian company, which was made not long ago, just a month ago. And so, after days, after a couple of days of controversy and Italian politicians accusing Pirlo, saying he could not cover such a big role having this agreement in place with the Russian betting company, the result was that Pirlo will not take charge of Italy national team and he's been officially informed about this. Now, the problem is uh there were initial reports and we've been discussing this already in the channel saying uh Pirlo was Maldini and Leonardo's top candidate, but not necessarily Malagò's top candidate. And there were reports that Malagosto was not convinced that part of the Fiji chief Italian Football Federation was not convinced and so there is a fear on the Leonardo and Maldini front that this is just let me put it this way an excuse not to confirm the appointment of Pirlo and go with somebody else. There are a lot of questions already. This is the basic of what's going to happen. The biggest news of the day is that Maldini and Leonardo will talk to Malagosto and after 15 16 days roughly the Maldini era could already be over because if he feels this is something that it's affecting his decisional power of picking a new coach then he's going to resign. It's a big mess. So this is pretty much what happened over the last 24 hours since our last video when Pirlo was expected to take over. It won't happen. Richard, your first thoughts? >> Yeah, I mean it is a bit of shocking in the sense of more for Maldini in the way that you're saying there that he's got to look to his superiors now because we were talking in the last show of very much about Italy looked to Maldini to be this beacon of light that's going to you know reestablish some order and sense into Italian football and bring them back to where they you know in a sense deservedly belong or historically belong anyway. And you know look we talked at the fact of Pirlo in itself was going to be a little bit controversial if it went in but again if it was Maldini and Leonardo's choice then that was fine. You know that you could understand it. People could get behind that in a sense. Now I think the biggest thing here is it does seem from Maldini's point of view I'm not sure of course that there seems to be a bit of short sightedness of the fact of whether it's an actual written rule that he can't take over because of the obligations that he has because of the Russian connection because of the the the the workload which whichever way you want to phrase or picture that it still looks like ineptitude already for Maldini and Leonardo. And when you have the fact that Malago is then almost using that as a stick to beat them with, it becomes uh not a power struggle, but them butting heads. It all and it can look like to others, maybe Maldini, that you know, because he didn't agree with the powers that be, he's now being made to look like a scapegoat. It's a whole mess either way. Um so, yeah, it's going to take a lot of ironing out for Malago, Maldini, or Leonardo to come out with any sort of credibility. >> We've got our first few comments already. As I said, one from Tom who always follows us. Thank you very much, as usual, Tom. He wrote turns out to be just another grifter. He's not rich enough that he needs to be involved in Russian betting. The shame. I agree. I mean, um on the moral part, uh I think there are different points of views, but I think we can all agree that it was not ideal to do this sort of deal. But, what I want to say is this was known already. I mean, the agreement is not from yesterday. The agreement is from last month. So, what I'm asking, I wrote an article this morning for Football Italia. It's not up yet, but there's a little spoiler here. I mean, uh if Malago and Maldini took 2 weeks to negotiate, they were in talks Malago said multiple times it's 2 weeks I took 2 weeks to convince Maldini. What did they talk about? I mean, he had to know if it was not Ancelotti, if it was not Guardiola, which were always difficult to get, he had to knew that the third option for Maldini was Andrea Pirlo, was not Mancini, was not Conte. The very first decision that was that was put a lot of emphasis on the fact that the new role given to Maldini was also about picking the new coach. So, you had to know that once that the big big names were were not there anymore, it would have been Pirlo. And I don't see how this could have not been prevented before because now the concrete risk is that we have to start everything from scratch, not just looking for a new coach, but looking for new director as well. After all we've been waiting, after all we've been saying about Maldini. I think Maldini has responsibility as well and I will talk about this later on. But the most incredible thing to me is that they didn't do this sort of talks before, behind the scenes before they came out and saying they had agreements. Maldini had to knew. >> Yeah. >> Maldini wanted to bring Pirlo. It's incredible. >> Yeah, and I think with due diligence as well, you know, when you look at that situation, especially when you bring bring a player in. If you look at the image rights that they'll have, you'll know what contract like Real Madrid have a you know, well, I don't know if they still do, but they used to have contractual obligations with image rights where they would take percentage. When you bring a player in, you know all the details these days, you know, everything about them. So, it's the same with coaches. So, yes, if you know Pirlo, the conversation should they want to bring Pirlo in, the conversation in my eyes from a business perspective is, who who's your top targets? Okay, ABC. And when you're talking about okay, what does what's the problems with Guardiola? It's almost, you know, risk what's your return on investment with Guardiola? What what are the risks? What are the problems? X, Y, Z. Right, okay. And you look about how you're going to then overcome those challenges. What are you going to do if he wants to wait? What are you going to do if he says he wants X amount of money? And it's the same thing. At the bottom it should have been Pirlo. If it comes to Pirlo, is this acceptable for everybody? Yes. Great. What's the situation? This is his contract, these are his image rights, this is what he needs, this is how quickly he can get there, etc. Down to the basics so that you know that when you make that to approach to Pirlo, that then when he says yes, you know that it's a a strong united front. This is the way forward we're going. And whatever's gone wrong there, it's not been marketed well, it's not been addressed well, and it is a mess now. >> I We already had a little bit of this feeling like when we read the last Malaga interview in the last live video that we did, he was the first one to say he said, "I don't want to say there is a clash." But, we said it many times. It was already clear that Pirlo was not anywhere near being Malaga's first choice. Malaga's first choice is probably Roberto Mancini. >> Yeah. >> There are Again, there are implications in all this. There is a fact that the agreement between Pirlo and this Russian betting site dates to mid-June. A month ago. And there were controversy already in Italy about the fact that Pirlo and other um Italian players and former Italian players were involved in this. So, it was known. Everybody knew. And uh the moment you hire Paolo Maldini, the moment you know that he has a strong connections with Andrea Pirlo. He wasn't a straightforward, necessarily, the top candidate when Maldini took over, but you had to know. You had to manage this situation properly. And uh again, today there is, probably, not a physical meeting between uh Leonardo, Maldini, and Malaga, but probably a um just chat um via phone or via video call between these three to see how to move forward and whether the Maldini project is still on. I think in terms of Maldini's decision, it all comes to where um Malaga will convince him that this is just a political case, and this is not his technical uh judgment on potentially hiring Maldini or potentially hiring Pirlo. Because if Maldini senses that his, again, uh decisional power is being limited, and he has to hire somebody, a name coming from somebody else, then he's going to resign 100%. >> Yeah, 100 Yeah, definitely. I think that that That's the interesting thing about the next couple of days is on this call is just how aligned now they were because from my point of view here, if it is the fact of where it's like you said, if it's a political or ethical reason about this, they knew. So, I'm sorry. You know what the situation is. So, it it's almost like and I'm not wanting to you know, add to conjecture, but it's almost like Maldini and Leonardo had almost guaranteed, "Listen, we'll get Guardiola or we'll get Ancelotti. We'll get someone." And who's your third Wait, it doesn't matter who your third choice is because we're going to get one of these because if you remember as well, Malagò said, "We will have an announcement in a couple of days' time." >> It was supposed to be yesterday today or tomorrow. >> Yeah, and it was all going to everything the the communication just hasn't seen as though it's been seen as to be there. I think the only way out of this now is if they sit down around the table and even if there's been mistakes for them to all move forward if they can, is to say, "Okay, for whatever reason this went wrong, we need to say whether that's Let's just say Mancini, we're going to come out and say that didn't happen, almost put the blame on Pirlo, which is wrong, but to say, "Listen, that's the situation. We're all going with Mancini. That's how we're going forward. That's it." Cuz I don't otherwise see how they get out of this cuz someone in some respects needs to be sort of responsible for the the massive cost cuz it is chaotic and it looks so. >> It is. It is 100% and I very much feel like most of our viewers are right now. Maldini would go because the again, the feeling is that this is not just a political thing. This is something that goes beyond because it was already clear that Maldini that Malagò's first choice was not Pirlo and that he was aiming to something different. Um I was I want to discuss about the um Maldini uh decision-making process, which I think is also not right. I think he's the right man uh he was meant to be the right man for the job, and I still think that he has the authority to lead a long-term Italy project, but this doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes, and I think there have been mistakes from the Maldini front as well. >> [snorts] >> The thing here is uh when Maldini was appointed, the first thing that was said is uh he will have an input, he will decide on the next coach. For the first time ever, the new Italy coach won't be picked by the by the um FIGC president, but by a technical director. Now, there there there can be a lot of confusion because there are multiple plans here overlapping. The political plan, the sporting plan, there are many ways to see this. The thing about Pirlo is uh obviously it was probably for many, even for the fans, not the right appointment because he hasn't done enough in his coaching career to represent Italy at the highest level in football. And this is something that we've been saying, you and I and other guests, so many times. But if this is Maldini's decision, then you just back Maldini and go ahead with him because otherwise there's no point in hiring Maldini, there's no point in saying he's going to come and save football if then he has to make make the decision that somebody else wants. This is This is the point. >> Yeah, completely. Uh it's the whole situation is a little out of hand. And like you're saying, there's lots of people here saying, you know, obviously that Maldini and Leonardo will will go. But that does not always solve the problem, does it? As well, like you're saying there, because with being supposed to be a technical director's decision, then what happens again, you know, if I mean, we've got a comment there about potentially Keeling. We'll just use that as a as a point because if someone else comes in, who says that that that decision then gets made? If the if the the format or the structure is broken or not because it's a new one, not defined, then the same mistakes will happen. There has to be a clear and concise situation where if you are going to give over responsibility, even if it's 50% of it, that you will follow through on that. Um and so it is it is messy, but now especially, you know, you look at the fact that this is what I said before, the only way out of this is if the three make a choice now, quickly, back it and move on and this will dissipate. The longer this drags drags on, the bigger the problem and the worst case is many say uh you know, how come? I mean, Ian Ian Care mentioning that how come Maldini stay? If he's been in the mind and he feels like that, then it's a very good point because it looks like he could easily just think, right, you know what? I can put the blame back on on my guy and go, right, that's it. I'm done. I tried, this this isn't work. And then there's a bigger bigger bigger problem. >> Got a one of the many comments from um Ian Care. Also, could Pirlo not just have ended his sponsorship? Main question, would this have been such a big issue if it was Guardiola instead of Pirlo? Uh probably. I think so. Um even the fact that Guardiola is not Italian, uh even though he's such a big coach and such a respected coach, um led to some criticism before uh Guardiola actually declined the offer to uh become Italy head coach. It's a good question anyway regarding the sponsorship. He could have ended his sponsorship anyway. This is why, very honestly, I don't think this is something about that has to do with politics. This is something that deeply has to do with technical considerations over Pirlo's appointment. And uh uh again, I feel Maldini and Leonardo feel very much the same. And if Malagò is not able to make them change their mind and convince them and say, "Look, this is not a technical thing. This is just something that we have to handle on political uh on political terms." Uh I think when and we can still hire whatever you whoever you want. Unless this is this conversation that they're going to have, I think Maldini and Leonardo will uh resign ending effectively the tenure after just a couple of weeks. Um the main regarding now the possible Italy next coach. Uh Mancini and Conte's names have always been in the frame since the very beginning, even before Malagò was appointed. We know Malagò has a very strong bond with Mancini. They even played a five-a-side tournament together in Rome over the last few weeks. There are pictures and videos of them together. They won the tournament. And uh Malagò publicly confirmed which obviously uh would would never deny his strong bond with Mancini. Both Mancini and Conte said they've never been contacted by the federation regarding the job. Now, they are the biggest names but if Mancini or Conte are appointed, we go towards a situation where Maldini is no longer the technical coach, the technical director. I think we have in a this sort of situation here. >> Yeah, just two things on that. I'll I'll touch on that point first actually. I think that the situation you have um is that we've always been looking about this long-term project we talked about over the last couple of shows. That Maldini and Leonardo are going to see Italy into the next 20 years in that sense of, you know, the build of the building blocks of it. And therefore, you can look at coaches like Pirlo, you know, young coaches are going to try and change the system or someone when we talk about Guardiola Guardiola could change the culture. I think now with the situation being so messy, if they can't even hire Pirlo correctly between the three of them, how are you going to shape Italian football for the next 10 to 20 years? It's You know, it's laughable in some respects. So now, that's why I was saying before, it looks and from my point of view only, it would seem as though the next choice would be a solid safe pair of hands to kill all the the noise and say, "Right, okay, that's now in Mancini's hands. It's done. He's won something before. You know, this is where we're going to move forward." And like you say, probably Maldini and Leonardo go. That's how I personally see it working out. Just one going back to Ian's point very quickly on the fact of the contract. I mean, I don't know if the numbers have been released, but one thing we have to consider and it's an ugly truth of the world and football is I think sometimes when we look at it as fans, we're like, "How could you take the Italy job?" How big was that contract? Because at the end of the day, Pirlo might not want it. I know you think managing the national team is the biggest honor in the world, but compared to what numbers? Because at the same point, you know, the numbers that can come out of these contracts are, you know, whether it's out in Russia or out in the Middle East, can be so vast that, you know, Pirlo might sit there and think, "Well, I could This chance might come up again with the national team and that contract is more worth my while my family's worth while, you know, set them up for X amount of time." So we have to think that it might not be political or technical. It could just be the down to, you know, money makes the world go round, unfortunately. So it could be that. >> Yeah, I mean, the Pirlo had an agreement with the with the FIGC, so it was it was it was open to to becoming the the Italy coach if it wasn't for this for all these political mess, he would have he would have gotten the job 100%. Um we one thing that I would like to ask to our viewers cuz I think this is exactly I mean I I I think that Maldini and Leonardo will resign, but if there's one way that Maldini and Leonardo don't resign if is they can appoint they're given the freedom to appoint whoever they want which I think it's going to be anyone for some reason except Mancini and Antonio Conte. So, would you rather prefer a scenario and I'm asking you as well Richard. There's no correct answer cuz I don't even know the answer. Would you rather prefer having a situation where we have still Leonardo and Mancini as technical directors, but a coach that is not one of the top options now, Mancini and Conte or would you get would you rather get either Mancini or Conte, but a different technical director. For example, Chiellini has been mentioned and I'm sure Chiellini and Conte would be quite a good pair for the national team given their experience together with Juventus and with Italy. What's the scenario that you would prefer? >> It's really difficult that one because I think if you'd asked me on the last show, I woul