Is the suspension a good thing for Vini Jr. to reset? 🤔 + Lisandro Martinez's apology | ESPN FC

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ESPN FC: Martinez's apology, Vini Jr.'s suspension and PSG's first-half masterclass at City

The show first discusses Lisandro Martinez's outburst and apology after Manchester United's defeat to Athletic, with clear disagreement over whether he should be forgiven or kept. It then turns to Vini Jr.'s four-game suspension, with several panellists arguing it could help him and Real Madrid reset, while still questioning Madrid's overall display against Roma. The final part covers PSG's first-half display at Manchester City and whether Premier League coaches have any right to complain about PSG resting players.

Today on ESPN FC, the panel discuss… 0:00 Lisandro Martinez’s apology 13:13 Vinicius Junior’s post-match comments & suspension 22:27 UCL matchday 2 results 30:10 Inter Miami defeat NYCFC 31:34 Shaka’s power rankings 34:12 Extra Time ✔️ Subscribe to ESPN Unlimited: https://plus.espn.com/ ESPN ESPNFC

Transcript

Welcome in to latest edition of ESPNFC. I'm Dan Thomas joined by Shaka Histle and Stevie Nickel. Landra Martinez once again grabs the headlines. We saw after that defeat against Athletic came out shouted about the club, their transfer policy, how everything is wrong. Yes, they apologized for that. Today he apologized again. This is what he had to say about the situation. Today I met with the club's leadership and the manager. It was a very positive conversation where we were able to exchange views and speak openly about what happened after the game. Everyone knows that I'm passionate person and I live in football with great intensity. The frustration of the defeat led me to express how I felt at a time and place that perhaps were not the right ones. And for that, I want to apologize. Our club is at its best when we're all united. And I recognize that my words in that moment did not help with that. I know that every single person at Manchester United is doing everything possible to achieve our shared ambition, bringing the success that this club and its supporters deserve. With this situation now behind us, we are fully focused on winning together. >> Speaking of nonsense, Frank Leof's here. Hey, >> so that's two apologies to outburst one. >> Yeah, exactly. So, >> apologies winning. >> Exactly. Your apologies beat uh the one out first. Stevie, you haven't been on since he made these comments, then backed away from these comments. >> Yeah. Um I have Well, clearly he never wrote somebody somebody's written that out for him and he's just he's >> But at the same time, >> he has apologized properly. You know, when he when he said that I was like, hold on a second, >> considering how you're playing, you know, you if you defended properly against Spurs, you'd have three points. Instead, you get one. But now that I've seen the apology, then I I understand it. You know, straight after a game, um things are heated. You're you're thinking all kinds of stuff, particularly when your team's struggling. And sometimes players do say things that they shouldn't. >> But he meant it, didn't he? >> Well, he did. Yeah. >> So then, aren't these just empty apologies? >> Well, not not really. No, I don't. Because because it's straight after a game, I think there's a bit of leeway there. Listen, had this been the day after or a couple of days after when you've had time to think about it and just settle down, then then that's a huge problem. I mean, it's wrong. What he did was wrong, but I get it. He's got a microphone in front of him, somebody throws a question at him. So, yeah, I I like the words he said. I know somebody else wrote it for him, but he's apologized. >> He can't be the only one with these sort of sentiments though, Shane, within that. Listen, I I think a lot of people looking at Manchester United and how things have gone over recent years, whether we're talking players or or talking managers, you could level the same the same criticism that you heard from Nandra Martinez. Now, I get what Stevie is saying and and I agree at times in the heat of a moment right after the game, somebody puts a mic in your in your face, you say the wrong thing, you're thinking one thing and just kind of comes out incorrectly and you go about your business trying to apologize and make up for that. But if you're a member of that dressing room, if you're one of the new signings, if you're Yuri Tielemans, for example, that feels very empty. You think so? >> Yeah. I I if I'm one of those players sitting in that, let's just use Yuri Tan Tmans as the hypothetical example here. I couldn't care how many times he apologized or how good each of those apologies were. He he directly attacked me postame for Manchester United sales. Um, and now whatever you say, drafted or not, as good as it may be or not, does not matter in the slightest. >> So, you think you think Timmans is sitting and going, he's talking about me? >> Yeah. >> You do? >> Yeah. >> And you don't see >> Well, just to recap, obviously, he came out and he said he was disappointed with the club's ambition that was shown in the transfer window. That that was basically what he was. >> Yeah. Why would he why would he straight off the bat think he's talking about he's not good enough because he was one of the people that joined in the summer. >> So he was >> I can't remember who United Tieman's Bala who else has to be it has to be an attack on them. >> How how has it to be? >> Who is it on there? >> Because the squad's not big enough or good enough. >> So why so why if I was sat there now I'd be sitting going well he's talking about me? You think he's Why is Tman sitting there thinking he's talking about me? Why would he think that? Sure. Why would he not think he's he's either He's either talking about we need a bigger squad and a better squad, which we do, or he's talking about somebody else. Why is Tieleman going, "Well, he's talking about me." I I wouldn't be thinking that. Why would Why would Tielemans think he's talking about me? Frank? >> Well, I I I don't think he's only talks about Baleba and Tiemans. He talks about all the players who just came throughout the like two three last years and it's why he attacks Will Cox saying that he does he hasn't done his job uh properly but the worst is he say that saying that the team is not good and the end of the uh uh his statement say that he believes in these teammates uh so it's absolutely nonsense I have no um sympathy for anything that he said I'm I'm not like Stevie and and Shaka saying that I we put you on a mic microphone in front of you and you can say some basis. I've been there, you know, when I remember with Chelsea that we lost against Berlin and I say, well, today we were crap and I was the first one. But that's the only thing you can say, you know, then you cannot attack your board, your some personals and your teammates. Who who are you? You're not fantastic. You're not the best player like me in the Champions League game. We lost and I was very bad and I put myself on top. So the guy is like he's he's saying, "Yeah, it's me, but it's not really me. It's more the others, you know, more the others. They're very bad. They're very crap. And Will Cup is because it's because of Will Cup because he doesn't know how to buy good players. And then the day after you go, you apologize. Now you know exactly what you say. You are most you are very experienced. He's not a young guy just coming like 19 years old. We can say some bases, you know. He knows what he says. Like I knew what I was saying. And even after a game, even if it was straight after a very bad game, you know exactly what you have to say. When you name people, especially uh somebody above you, that's that's absolutely abnormal. And I'm pleased. I think he's going to be fine. But I He should leave the club. If he doesn't like the club, get out. >> Get out. >> Does it make a difference that he was right, Frank? >> He cannot be right. He hasn't got the position to be right in that statement. It's part of it. It's a collective sport. You cannot you're not above anybody to say what you think about the recruitment, the players alongside you. Uh and and after saying, well, I believe on my teammates, it says a lot about his mentality. the guy is able to criticize all the new signings throughout again the three years I think or even more I don't know and and put it put it put him as an exception and after yeah you know maybe I went too far so I put myself a little bit in it so he's not right he cannot be right because that's not his position you cannot do that >> I think it's easy for him to attack the higherups to to to Frank's point whether it's Will Cox or whether it's Radcliffe or the Glazers because popular consensus certainly amongst Manchester United fans are that's where the blame lies. So you want to get yourself in the fans good books it's it's an it's an easy attack to make against against the higher-ups as as as Frank puts it. My my issue is he's not he's not sharing a space with them. He's not going to dinner with them. You know nothing about his his life or certainly his footballing career um there there isn't that that intersection. But again, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't he say something along the lines of, you know, last season we had this good finish and now look at us. >> If I if I'm one of those new signings, maybe Ste TV sees it differently, but if I'm one of those new signings, I'm seeing that as an attack on me. >> Do you want him kicked out of the club like Frank does? >> I if I'm mean, >> if you're Manchester United football club, are you seriously kicking Lando Martinez out? Um, >> not >> who can they? >> Yeah. No, no. Yeah, that's >> Yeah, that that that that's a challenge. I know one one of one of the challenges is well, >> they just aren't very good in all honesty and and Landra Martinez >> because of the because the transfers because they haven't brought in the players quality. >> Listen, he's he's he's right, but again, you don't attack you don't attack teammates in that way. I I I I stand by that. that just makes up for far far for a very toxic um dressing room. Um now whether they can kick him off, whether they sell him, time will tell, but let's be honest, if Manchester United sell Martinez and bring somebody else, this is not like Alex Ferguson selling Yap Stam or Roy Keane, a legend at the club who'd achieved so much. This is just another player who well slightly above average when he was fit in a very below average Manchester United. Listen, if I I think it does make a if you if you're talking about in terms of he has to get rid of sent out the club, it has to be something totally outrageous, wrong, the whole nine yards. But the fact that everything he said rings true, I think it does make a difference. I think it does make a difference. You know, I again, if if he's completely off the charts, saying things that are just not true, then, you know, if you want to if if you really are in a position where you think moving him out the club is going to change anything, then do it. But because he's 100% right, that that changes it for me. >> What do you expect Carrick to do over the next couple of days? They suggested that today he he sat down, he spoke to Martinez. Clearly, they've they've cleared the air. Uh ESPNFC suggesting that's the end of the matter. Of course, big game against Leads at the weekend. He still plays obviously. Yeah. >> Yes, I think so. Um because you know what Stevie put it put it uh when he when he said you know they they can't get rid of it because they don't have any options. So where yes you have Euro you can have maybe some others but yeah Landro Martinez is a good player he's not the top of the top you know if we talk about the history of Manchester United I remember players like Vidish that was a hell of a of a defender that was a different era and uh and this why I'm a little bit upset against Landra Martinez because he hasn't been the best example throughout all his time all his years at Manchester United we we've been critical towards the fact that he was making too many fouls, that he was too intense sometimes, that he was incapable of of chill out at some point and and get cold uh to to to do to to get the right decision. And and this why I'm I'm a little bit upset, but right now you need all the the strengths that you you you you have in hands and Landro Martinez is is capable of having a good game. So if I'm if I'm Carrick, I I I keep him in. But uh I would talk to the board because there is a problem again. It's maybe 100% right, but does he has the right to say it? That's my position. You just a player like among others. >> You know, I find it funny to think about it. Carrick saying yes, we've had a meeting and we we had a good chat and the whole thing. >> I this meeting by the way, I'll be absolutely shocked if this wasn't Michael K, come in, sit in, shut the door. What are you trying to do? What are you doing? And you'd be like, "Oh, sorry, boss. I I'm" You go like, "Just keep your mouth shut. There's no need for any nonsense. Look, just keep your head down, keep your mouth shut, and go on with me. All right." And he'd be like, "Yeah, sorry, boss." And then off he goes. This is This is no Fergie haird dryer or somebody getting lambasted by the manager. No chance. Because, as I say, Carrick absolutely needs him. >> Whether you think he's great or not, Carrick needs him. and he's not going to pull him in the office and throw him over the coals and start screaming at him and saying that's it. You don't play Saturday. We need to make a statement. I need to show the dressing room that I mean business. I guarantee you there was none of that. It'd be look what are you doing? Keep your mouth shut in future and he'd be like yes boss off you go. >> Just a reminder extra time is available over every day on our YouTube channel. Today we discuss whether or not PSG have it easy because they play in league when it comes to the Champions League. That's where Martinez tick Venicious Jr. now has been talking as well. This was his postmatch comments after that come from behind victory against Roma. Remember Real Madrid were losing. Venicious Jr. was taken off. Didn't seem very happy to be substituted and then Real Madrid come back to win 43. H this is what he had to say. I'm in a bad moment now, but Vinnie always comes back. Third person time. My reaction to being subbed off, it's normal. I want to play all minutes and help the team, but it's not possible. End came on and changed the match. He was the best player in the second half. We hope he continues to develop like Espie, who gets few minutes. I'll be back. I am sure. I'm not worried, but I'm angry at myself for not giving my best version. The whistles from the fans don't help me. I'd rather they supported me. But I understand they pay tickets. I'd rather they boo me than the youngsters. Uh Alex Kirkland joins us as we talk about another chapter in Venicious Junior quite eventful uh season so far. Uh leading up to it, of course, Alex, the big news that he'll be suspended for four games after the hairpool and the reaction to the red card as well. Um where do you want to start with all of this, Vinnie? 24 hours on. Well, I think look, you read what he said after the game there. I think he said a lot of the right things, but that doesn't disguise the fact his performance again was dreadful. Dreadful. You know, fewest touch I think of any player on the pitch. Barely involved. When he was involved, he got it wrong. You know, gave the ball away for Roma's second goal, which Mourinho was visibly angry about on the touch line. It doesn't help Vinnie. He mentioned Enrich there. End comes on and he's brilliant. He's the MVP. He's the man of the match. you know, he changes the game for Real Madrid, doing everything that Venicious Junior is right now unable to do in terms of being dynamic and making things happen and keep going again and again and again. The kind of things that Vinnie used to do when he was in his top form. So, look, it's it was a bad night for Venicious. Of course, he's only got, as you mentioned, the Champions League now to impress because he's banned in La Liga. has only got these Champions League games until basically late November to say to Mourinho, look, I deserve a place in the in the team. In a way, I it sounds harsh to say it, but that ban right now maybe helps out Mourinho because it means that Vinnie is out. He doesn't have to sort of, you know, waste time trying to play Vinnie back into form. He can focus on the players who are in form. You know, play Argula there or play Yande there or you can fit both into the team if you want to do that without Vinnie. So, I don't think his absence right now is is bad news for for Real Madrid. Quite the opposite. I think in a way it makes Marino's life easier. >> Blessing in disguise, Stephen. I Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he's he's been a distraction when he's not on the field and he's been a distraction on the field as well. And and yeah, the the other players um the two that he mentioned, particularly Hri coming on. >> Yeah. >> If if you're Hri, you're going, "Hold on a second. He's what else can I do?" So what happens if Henry actually has a sustained bout of form? Then does Vinnie get back in? I mean Vinnie Vinnie absolutely has to look at himself and figure out that he's in the position he's in because of himself. He's the he's the one that's put himself in his position. And if I'm Marino, you know what? I'm quite I'm quite glad. It's it's a headache I don't need. I've got plenty of headaches right now with with everybody. So I don't need somebody just making it twice as bad for everybody. So yeah, he's done my favor big time. >> To that point, blessing in in disguise for both Mourinho and and Real Madrid. Let's hope it's a blessing in disguise for Venicious Junior because this time out maybe he can just press the reset button, try to figure out what's going wrong, correct it, whether it's psychological, whether it's physical, whatever it is. he now has a moment away from the game where oftent times when players aren't informed, whether they're injured or suspended or not, a little time on the sidelines just looking on um does them the world of good. Judging from this statement, he recognizes that it's all down to him and he's the only one that can put it right. Let's hope he uses these moments to do exactly that. It really was. Just talking about the game, incredible comeback when you look at how poor Real Madrid were. Roma and we've talked a lot about Italian football and their struggles in the Champions League. You thought, well, how low have Real Madrid gone now in the fact they've been completely played off the park. Mourinho speaking afterwards, defended his selection, saying, "Look, if I'd started with this team, we would have lost 5-nil. It was what the way it worked out, the way they tired them out." Uh, but still, it's strange. You come back, you have this extraordinary win. SP once again getting the goal, but it leaves almost more questions than answers about Mourinho's tactics going forward. >> Yeah, look, Marino tried to kind of frame this Oh, sorry, Frank. I was going to say tried to frame this as sort of a tactical no >> masterclass. His plan, his plan was to basically tire out Roma, let Roma sort of use up all their energy with their sort of ferocious pressing and then um were going to pounce. But I just don't really buy it. I thought M was so poor. I mean, I was there. I was writing about the game for the site. It was a classic thing where almost everything I wrote got deleted on the 85th minute. None of it applied because we did. But in a way, it does apply because look those first, you know, the first half, the first hour, the first 70, 80 minutes, that's still there. That still happened, you know. Yes, they came back. Yes, they scored those three goals in seven minutes. It was three corners, you know, Arula deliveries into the box. Roma couldn't cope and Roma were exhausted. But the first part of that game, most of that game, that still happened. And in that, you know, most of that game, Real Madrid were really, really poor. And I keep coming back to the idea if Mourinho wants to play, you know, if the idea is we don't want the ball, we don't want possession, we're going to, you know, play on the counterattack, use our pace, and beat teams that way, fine. But to do that, you've got to be defensively solid, and you've got to take your chances. And Real Madrid aren't doing either of those things right now, especially at the back. The defense against Roma, I just thought was was just full of holes. Uh we talked about the possible suspension. It was, as we said, four games. Two for the hairpool and two to the reaction to the red card. Alex, when you were on earlier this week, I think you said two would have been abo