Is it time for Real Madrid to MOVE ON from Vini Jr. after red card? 😳 | ESPN FC
Should Real Madrid move on from Vinicius Jr. after his red card? ESPN FC debates
The show discusses Vinicius Jr.'s hair-pull red card, his post-match apology and Mourinho's press-conference no-show, asking whether he has become a problem for Real Madrid managers. The pundits see the foul as partly instinctive and the apology as a positive sign, but they also agree his reaction to the red card and the needlessness of the act are hard to defend, while comparing his clashes with Alonso and Mourinho.
- Mourinho skipped the post-match press conference to avoid saying something that could get him banned and make him miss games against Sevilla and Barcelona — He did not want to miss those key matches, and attending might have led to a ban
- Vinicius's behaviour is a continuation of petulance, and acting shocked at the red card after pulling hair is especially absurd — He had been benched and was not playing well, and the hair-pull was an obvious foul, yet he looked as if he did not expect to be sent off
- Vinicius's reaction to the red card is harder to defend than the red card itself — A difficult season, a disallowed goal and a sending-off can make a player devastated or lose his head, but he surely knew he had been caught
- Vinicius's apology is a positive sign that he recognises he was wrong, and the red-card incident can be understood as an instinctive grab in a duel — He was trying to get past a defender and reached for hair, perhaps without meaning to, and it was different from his usual confrontations with referees or opponents
- Last year's conflict with Alonso and this year's issue with Mourinho are different in nature — Last year involved a broken relationship and the club not backing the manager, which undermined Alonso's authority; this year Mourinho is publicly supporting Vinicius, and the issue is more about form and tactics
- Vinicius is trying and simply out of form, and the team hopes to help him get back to his level — Mourinho said before the game that criticism of Vinicius breaks his heart because he knows Vinicius is giving everything
- There are footballing issues with the spacing between Vinicius and Mbappe that affect Vinicius's performances — Their positioning and use of space do not always work well together, so Vinicius cannot play the way he once did
- Real Madrid may have missed the moment to deal with Vinicius's form and future by giving him a big new contract in the summer — His dip in form has lasted a long time, roughly since the night he did not attend the Ballon d'Or gala
- Pulling hair was completely needless and hard to understand, and in the VAR era players must think about what they can and cannot get away with — Nobody is perfect, but the foul was so unnecessary, and with VAR it is hard to hide
Sid Lowe joins Craig Burley and Kay Murray on ESPN FC to react to Vinicius Junior’s red card for pulling Nathan Saliba's hair in the build-up to his disallowed goal and discuss what this means for the rest of Real Madrid's season. ✔️ Subscribe to ESPN Unlimited: https://plus.espn.com/ ESPN ESPNFC
Transcript
to City. So Vinnie's taken to Instagram to respond to what's happened in today's game. He said, "The joy continues. I want to apologize to my teammates and Real Madrid fans." So that's Vinnie Junior on what he had to say. I wonder Sidlo, who was at the game for us today, what Jose Mourinho has had to say after this match. >> Zed, could you hear us? I could not. >> Oh, well K asked you a very a very intelligent question that I thought was lost on you. >> What? >> Okay. The question was >> what did Jose Mourinho have to say after the game today? >> Oh, well then it turns out that my answer was absolutely perfect, which was to go absolutely silent and to tell you nothing at all. speak >> because Josie Mourinho, there were a lot of us sitting in the press conference room waiting for Jose Mourinho to turn up. Jose Marinho did turn up. Now, by the way, there's a there's a basic common decency question here, which is, you know, at what point do you actually tell the journalist waiting for Jose that he's not coming? Anyway, he didn't come. No one told us so, but he didn't turn up. Uh, apparently the reason he didn't turn up was he doesn't want to miss the games that are coming up against Sevilla, against Barcelona. And I assume that what he means by that, of course, is that if he got into the press conference room, he might have said something that ended up getting him banned. Now, there's obviously an alternative, which is to go into the press conference room and not say anything that's going to get you banned, but he decided that he didn't want to or couldn't do so. So, he didn't turn up. Um, we seem to be going through the greatest hits a little bit quickly, don't we? We're only eight weeks into the season. We had the the the list of errors after the after the Atletico Madrid game, the the the print off of the of the two challenges. Today we had the not turning up at all and so it goes on. Real Midrid though did at least this time win 1 nil against Val >> said this this continuation of petulence from Venites Jr. amongst other things and being benched and not playing very well. Not to say that anybody's perfect, but but but but the pulling of a player's hair and then the shock at the red card as if he's surprised it's quite something. >> Yeah. I mean, I was about to say that I'm going to defend Venicious here on on on a on a on a couple of levels, but actually before I do that, I think I pick up on what you just said there. the the the reaction to getting the red card. That's the bit that for me is is harder to defend because you know you can be absolutely devastated because it's been a difficult season. You finally got your goal. Your goal is not just pulled back but you're sent off and you can be devastated and you can lose your head a little bit but surely at some level Venicious knows ah I've been caught. He knows that that that what happened happened. Um I was going to defend him on the other two things because as you say you know he's apologized for what that's worth. I think the apology is is is actually quite a good thing because at least it's not him doubling down in this kind of sense of of of being set upon, sense of having been cheated, sense of having things gone against him. And I quite like the fact that his response was to apologize because I think that's a recognition that that he got it wrong. And then in terms of the red card itself, I would say that's slightly different to some of the things that we've talked about in the past with Venicious where where he confronts people, where he gets into arguments, where he faces up to the referee or to opposition fans or opposition players or sometimes even his own players because that was a moment of the game in which he committed a foul, trying to get an advantage, trying to get beyond a defender who' stepped across in front of him and he pulls his hair and I I'm I'm guessing it's a it's a gut instinct. It's it's grabbing at something that's there. He maybe doesn't necessarily know it's a hair. He thinks he's reaching a for a shoulder or a piece of shirt or or whatever it may be and trying to get beyond someone. But of course, I think the fact that he apologized suggests that actually deep down he knows it's right. Which of course brings us back to the Mourinho thing. If Mourinho was going to come into the press conference and presumably complain about being down to 10 men and having a goal taken off him, but anyone who saw that footage, there isn't really anywhere to go anymore. Yeah, someone's had their hair pulled. That's the end of it really. >> Said is it not Sorry, I don't want to I don't want to harp on about Vinnie Jr. right? Cuz there's other players and and Real Madrid won the game. But if you're the biggest thorn in the previous manager's side, as he was for Chab Allonzo and you now are the biggest thorn, I I would imagine in the current manager side, and he's one of the most experienced uh managers on the planet, what's that telling you? Right. I'm going to try and differentiate between the two things because I think they are slightly different cases believe it or not. And that is that the the the issue last year with Shabilons of course we saw was Venicious's frustration at getting taken off and that created a confrontation between him and his manager which had come actually from the summer that there was a there was a disconnect between them. the relationship wasn't that good and of course what that meant that was Shabi Alonso's authority was entirely undermined publicly in the classical but more importantly after the classicalico when the club didn't back the manager against the player because of the way the player had behaved and that I think was the beginning of the end for Shabilono now I think this year with Mourinho it's it's different and it's different because this isn't about Venicious and Mourinho falling out it's not about Venicious and Mourinho not seeing eye to eye it's about the performance level and Mourinho is being very um clear I think in trying to support Venicious, trying to back him, trying to say, I want to get this guy on side. He said in the press conference before this game, he said, you know, it kind of breaks my heart when people have a go at him because I know he's trying. I know he's giving it everything and I know his performance level isn't right at the moment, but we're hoping to get there, which of course is why it was such a liberation for everyone in this stadium when Venicious scored today. So, so I do think there is a if you like a qualitative difference between the issues that Venicious uh was at the heart of with Alonso and the issues that he's at the heart of with Mourinho and of course the Mourinho situation is one in which Mourinho will feel if I can get him through this difficult moment he will come good and he will be a good player. Now I think there are footballing issues why it doesn't necessarily work with Kilin at times why the spacing on the pitch isn't always the way it is. Why Venicious isn't playing the way he once was. But yeah, of course it asks questions and of course what it does as well, Craig, it makes everyone look back to the summer and think about that moment when it seemed that Venicious was halfway out and then they ended up giving him a new contract, a very big new contract. And I wonder if there's maybe a bit of that for was that the moment to to to deal with this to to decide what to do because Venicious's poor form has been going back quite a long time. Basically, it's been going back more or less since the night when they didn't go to the Ballandor gala because he hadn't won it. >> It's a talent key, isn't it? what Sid's just talking about. Bonets Jr. has found more than one way to be a thorn in different manager sides. >> A talent >> that is a talent. >> Well, very I know what said I know what Sid's saying. It's it's a different scenario, but ultimately he's he's along with Mbappe, I suppose, in a way, but he's he's he's been a headache for for Mourinho in a different way. There's definitely no doubt about that. And this this certainly hasn't helped. We have a manager here that's trying to turn this ship around. they're under pressure. And look, people make mistakes. I I understand that. No, nobody's perfect. But I just think it was so needless. It's I just don't I just don't understand the psyche of a player. And all the years playing and playing with players, I never it was just never something that came into your mind. you thought the odd time about throwing an arm in a player and you know whatever sometimes you get into a bit of a fight or what you sometimes but you never never crossed your mind to pull a player's hair so I just don't understand what the psyche of that is and particularly with the modern game with the VR you just you've just got to sit down at home at night and say and he's apologized and say listen I've got to think about what I can and can't get away with.