Jason Cundy SHUTS DOWN Spurs Fan in TOP SIX debate | The Pitch
Radio pundit Jason Cundy and Spurs YouTuber Chris Cowlin go head-to-head on this episode of The Pitch, on the biggest questions surrounding Tottenham Hotspur. No topic is off-limits. premierleague jasoncundy spurs tottenhamhotspur
Transcript
Tottenham fans hate one man. It's not Igor Tudor. It's not Big Ange. It's Jason Cundy. >> [screaming] >> HAS ANYONE SEEN TOTTENHAM? >> WHO BETTER TO DEBATE Spurs fan Chris Cowlin considering the fact that Chelsea and Tottenham [music] are both Tottenham Hotspur are no longer part of the big six. 3 2 [music] 1 You can't be facing relegation. Second season on the spin, Chris. Second season on the spin. Big six club might do it. We might look over our shoulder. Remember under Jose in 15. We looked over our shoulder for a couple months. You can't be in a relegation fight two seasons on the spin and be a big six. You you like that that you've lost your your membership. It's gone. You have to reapply. But we're in the conversation with the Super League. Oh, that was a while ago. That was in that was in COVID times, in fairness. >> [laughter] >> You're not a big six now, Chris. That you Do you know what? You're not You need to make sure >> Spurs could be back next season. And then all of a sudden we're in that conversation again. >> We'll have it next season. >> happen. It could happen. >> think you're a big six? Yeah. Why? You look at the stadium. You look at the training facilities. This should be a place where every single player should want to come to a a team like Spurs. And we should be up there competing year in year out. And the fact that so many poor decisions have been made in recent years. Now you go back to the Pochettino days. You know, Spurs are competing on all fronts every year. No, but we're having this conversation now. Now. You I mean you're you're in a relegation for I don't know how a big six you can consider yourself big. Two seasons on the spin. I just don't know how you can consider that. I really don't. I mean next season you might be in the top six of the Championship. Think of that. Do you think you'll be able to stay in the top six so uh I WELL, NO. I'VE JUST SAID I THINK IT'S A BIG NO ONE'S GOT A CRYSTAL BALL. I I THINK you will. I think you will. I don't know. I think you will, but big six, you need you need to do a little bit more to reclaim it. It's I think it's just a big five now. >> Look, in in all seriousness, yes, a a lot needs to happen. Major investment needs to go into [snorts] the football club. Major decisions need to be made. You know, decisions have been very poor in recent years in recent seasons, but um I think that we will get back to that very very soon. Are we relying too much on off-the-field reasons as to why they'll still be part of the big six? >> a mixture. I think it's a mixture. When you have um one of the best stadiums in the world, I know everyone goes on about the stadium and everyone goes on about the training facilities, but you go back to uh 2019, what Pochettino said about, you know, you've got this wonderful mansion, you've got to put the furniture in it. We are still waiting for that furniture to be put in it. And uh and I think that if Spurs did go big in the summer, we could be competing again. Well, if you go to IKEA, you need to fill it with something better than IKEA, Chris. You can't keep going to IKEA and expecting to be in the top six. >> lost 22 games against other teams in the big six plus Aston Villa. You've won five and lost 14 and drawn three. These last two seasons haven't been good enough. We all know that. I think that, you know, the fans have identified that. Um I think the football club would admit that. You know, major changes need to be made. And do you think then and then you'll start kicking on again once that's happened or >> Absolutely. Who are the big six at the moment? Well, there's only big five now. I'd put I think We we cut we cut we cut down the big >> big big five plus one. >> It's just the big five. Well, that put your application in. Villa want to put an application in. But but you were going on about big six and I know you're an Arsenal fan, Henry. You you talk about European trophies. Well, Spurs won a European trophy. When was your last European trophy? Oh, good shout. It's it's still be this argument, but big six is about the Premier League big six, isn't it? You know, I'm sitting here with an Arsenal and a Chelsea fan. Spurs Spurs are not good, mate. They're not looking good, [laughter] mate. THEY'RE NOT LOOKING GOOD. BUT GENUINELY, I felt that Spurs were in that conversation. Now, I don't know how you can be where you are and genuinely worried about getting relegation, too. Okay, last season, less so. I know you won the the Europa League. I don't I think you need more, mate. I think you need more to be a big six. It's a big five. I think right this second, you would be silly to say, you know, we are a top six club. But, I think that we could get back there very quickly. >> If they draw up plans for the Super League again, do you reckon Spurs are invited? Not at this rate, cuz they'll be in the Championship. Won't you? You just said they'll be staying up. I DID I LIKE I SAID, I AIN'T GOT A CRYSTAL BALL, CHRIS. Pochettino should not come back to Spurs. Three, two, one. I'm undecided. Can you put both up? Yeah, I'm going to put both up. Um I think at the moment that whoever comes into the football club, major changes need to be made at board level, and whoever is going to be thinking about taking that job, whether it's Pochettino or somebody else, they will have a thousand and one questions and saying, "How is this going to be different for me?" So, I think that the transfer windows need to be different. Lots of things need to be changed at board level, and decision-making needs to be a lot better. So, I don't think at the moment, whoever does come in, >> [snorts] >> um unless major changes are made at the club, it doesn't matter. What division are they in when we're answering this question? In the Premier League, like you said many times. >> I'm asking H, I'M NOT ASKING YOU. >> [laughter] >> WHAT DIVISION ARE LET'S LET'S presume they're in the Premier League. I think that there will be um it'll be something for him to think about. In the Championship, no chance. Absolutely not. No, he's he knows what he No, he's not built for I wouldn't Yeah, I wouldn't expect that. It It It would certainly galvanize the fan base. It would certainly have unity again in the fan base, and I think that, you know, if you ask the majority of Spurs fans right now, that is the man that that Spurs fans want. >> But, with a World Cup summer and him obviously leading the US men's national team, is that really the best idea for the amount of rehaul you need to do? Well, I think if if he's having that conversation about taking that job, he needs to be given assurances and promises and he needs to be given a huge transfer budget and he needs a little bit more control than perhaps what he had before and you know, more control than what other managers have had recently as well. You expect that? I don't know. Um, I think it's a huge summer for the football club in general. Um, let's get out of this relegation fight first. Let's finish the season, be a Premier League team and uh, and then let's have a look, uh, see where we are and uh, like I said, major investment needs to happen for us to even compete at the top. Jason, you saw him at your club more recently than Chris did at his. How was he for Chelsea? Was he Is he Has he still got that magic that we saw? >> I'm I'm a fan of Poch. You know, I like what he did at Spurs. He over He overachieved at at Spurs in in my mind. Chelsea's a very difficult club to manage for a very difficult club to come into. Um, and things have changed at that at that football club and and we're still seeing that that process almost like on a on a monthly basis at the moment. But going back to to Pochettino, I Spurs have tried everything. Poch was obviously the the the fans' choice. He overachieved and what he did with that club at that time was pretty unbelievable now when you consider where they are. They've gone down the Conte route. They've gone down the Jose route. They've then, you know, okay, they've had interim managers. They've gone with the new manager with Thomas Frank. Whatever they seem to try Spurs, they never seem to find a formula. And I I actually don't know what the answer is. For me, Poch should avoid Spurs because going back and Chris is saying there that he needs backing and I don't know where what that conversation looks like. I don't know how that's that's sounded out. Who is going to go to Poch and say to him, right, we're giving you complete autonomy over here? If they do that, when you then you see what Emery went through at Man United where he comes in and you build a team and also, by the way, what happened with Erik ten Hag, building a squad, buying players in, Anthony comes in, spending millions and you can't sit find him with a radar now. Then you get a manager that comes in with three at the back. The whole club is still reeling from those decisions. Look, he's coming Harry didn't do very well. Jace, I think it's fair to say that the transfer windows haven't been good enough [snorts] over a lot of time. I think even you were wearing a Spurs shirt when we had our last world-class signing and that was Jurgen Klinsmann in 1994. >> [laughter] >> It wasn't you, no. But no, we've had we've had some great players at the football club, don't get me wrong, but you know, talking about bringing in a world-class player at that time where all the fans are sitting there going, "Wow, we have just signed, you know, X, Y, and Z." That's what we need and we need to go out and spend big and we need to go for it. Was Poch's success the first time just a culmination of everything kind [snorts] of lining up perfectly for him as well? You know, Harry Kane coming through, obviously which was under Tim Sherwood, wasn't it, really? >> Yeah. Do you think that there's the ability now for him actually to to do the same magic again or or his best days at Spurs are done? It just like I said, Henry, it depends on what the football club want to do. I would like to see the football club, you know, show real ambition and go for it. I want to see Spurs challenging for the Premier League. I know Jace might laugh at that, but you know, it weren't long ago since we were in a Champions League final. We want to We want to be competing for the top honors. We want to be in that conversation time after time, year after year and that's what I think needs to happen, that conversation with Pochettino or whoever it is and like Jace said, we've gone through so many, you know, great managers. Jose Mourinho, Antonio Conte, Pochettino, you know, I know Ange won us the Europa League, but you know, we've gone through so many different managers and tried so many different things. It's the football club they need to change the way that they are doing things. Why do all the managers seem to have so much almost anger and frustration towards something? Conte, we saw it famously. Igor Tudor has done it basically as soon as he stepped foot through the door. Well, there's so many issues and these issues need to be ironed out and corrected. And like I said, that the transfer windows is what really frustrates the fans because every single transfer window we're always thinking big, we're always thinking about, you know, great players coming in the door and uh let's be honest and frank about it. Anytime we've had a good player or a great player leave, any player that's come in has been a downgrade, not an upgrade. Mhm. I look back at Spurs over those years, right? You had Kyle Walker right back, you had Modrić and Bale. Yeah. Uh Van der Vaart, Harry Kane, Son. I mean, those those players there those players don't exist in Spurs' world now. Mhm. And we were talking some serious footballers. You had I mean, even your two center halves were the the um Toby and Jan. Yeah, right? Yeah. You had good center halves. Danny Rose at left back. You know, you had all over the pitch those Spurs players don't exist now in this Spurs squad. How do you get Harry Kane? He comes through he he's Harry Kane's one of the best players this country's ever produced. That that comes around in a generation. But those players that you've mentioned there, they were all developed at Tottenham. So, it's not about them signing >> Poch Poch done a lot of that work, by the way. Fair. So, if if it's not about them signing these ready-made [snorts] players, it's developing them. Do you think they can still do that? Well, that that's a long-term vision and Poch spent Chris or Tel as better than I'll be able to tell you how many months, years it it actually took to do, but he he he brought Kyle Walker on. He brought Danny Rose in there. You know, and a lot of players okay, maybe not Van der Vaart. I think he might have left by then, but the Kanes Son double act, that was Poch. Yeah. That was his work, his training, his his methods that got the best out of them. That doesn't happen overnight. That's seasons of hard work on the training ground. >> He got the best out of players. He really did and he was a great man manager who would always put his arm around players and and and make them feel good and give them that confidence. And you know, that team was unbelievable. And how Poch didn't guide Spurs to a trophy in that time um unbelievable. But also, whenever you'd go to like an under-21 [snorts] game, Pochettino was always there. He always wanted to bring that youth through and I think that Spurs have lacked that as well by bringing bringing it through players, you know, one of our own. So, that that is something that needs to be looked at as well. It's hard to look at their next fixtures without thinking the immense injuries they've got are going to cause a problem. You know, what where is it going wrong there? Well, we hope to get a number of players back for the April games and they will be massive. So, after the international break, after the uh next game. So, it's been an issue. These last couple of years have been uh an absolute nightmare, you know. Ange said, "Every time I see a you know, the light at the end of the tunnel and an oncoming train comes." And Igor Tudor has come out and said about the the injuries at the moment and Thomas Frank. Um it's been ridiculous. Um major things need to be changed again at the football club in the medical department area. And is that something you can attest to as as a former player? >> Well, with my time there, I was injured throughout most of my career there. And that that's I'm not putting that just down to Spurs, but I was I was misdiagnosed down at Lance as a player. I played with got called sick note. The the medical team back there were were tragic. But, now in in the modern game, there is sports science, the strength and conditioning, the medical team. There has to be joined-up thinking between the training, manager, minutes played. Before Igor turned up as well, what what's going there? But, the amount of injuries Spurs have had over the last 2 years is nothing short of of alarming is one word, disgraceful. To have players out injured, football happens, injury happens. To have them out for as long as they are and go missing. Kulusevski, Maddison, Udogie. Um who else is out there? Kulu knows. Bentancur. You know, these these players walk probably walk back into the Spurs team and make them better. There's another reason why they are where they are because of that. But, to have them out for so long, there needs to be an internal investigation in my mind about why this is happening every season to every manager. And players are out not just for 3 weeks, they're out 3, 4, 5 months, sometimes a season. Something is is terribly, totally wrong there. Kulusevski, when he was first injured, it was really underplayed, wasn't it? They all said it wasn't a big thing. It's a knock. It's a knock. >> It's a knock, and said it was a knock, yeah. And he's been out for almost 10 months, so yeah, we need these players back in quick. Do you know what it is with Kulusevski? No, it's it's just seems to be an ongoing problem of I know that Thomas Frank once said that he he tried to play or kick a ball on the pitch, and he was getting a lot of pain, so it's back to the drawing board, and then you know, more rehabilitation, and so yeah, who knows when they're going to be back. The club would be better off with Daniel Levy still there. 3 2 1. I'm going to stick both up. Okay, Chris, tell me why. The transfer windows, as I've said, were always an issue. You know, even that time under Pochettino of of taking us to a Champions League final in 2019, we didn't spend money in multiple transfer windows. In fact, there was 518 days without a signing. Self-imposed transfer ban, wasn't it? Unbelievable. No, you know, it's a top club like Chelsea. >> No, it was, but it's self-imposed. >> [laughter] >> No, it's you can't go through multiple transfer windows and not sign players. And I feel like Daniel Levy always got the blame for these issues. I know a lot of people have said recently since his departure that we have missed him in certain areas, and I do agree. I think we've missed him in certain areas in the boardroom, of getting deals done, etc. And I actually think as well that we wouldn't be in this relegation fight if he was actually still there. So, I'm very mixed about that. Yeah, that's the that's the bit I stuck the green flag up, cuz I don't believe Spurs I think if there was going to be a decision made on Thomas Frank, and clearly it had to be made because things were going so terribly wrong, I don't think Igor Tudor would have been the the man. I think somehow there would have been some stability at the club to make the right decision. It might It might still turn out to be the right man, but the fact after four games, Spurs fans want him out, his job's being questioned. Okay, great point away at Liverpool, but he shouldn't have to score in the 87th minute to get to make sure your job is is is safe. I I don't It's probably part of the problem. In fact, he is part of the problem as well. Um I think there needs to be moving on a completely different vision. The fact that he left the day after the transfer window shut in August Was it August he he left? When that when the transfer September In September when the when the transfer window shut? The fact that he left on that particular day tells me all you need to know that you've done your job, disappear. And since then, I think things have gone from bad to worse. >> Well, he did get, you know, So, in the summer, obviously, Kudus and Xavi Simons came in. I think they were, you know, pretty well-respected signings at the time. And Gibbs-White, if it wasn't for, you know, Nottingham Forest kind of, you know, pulling the wool over Tottenham's eyes, would have got him as well, most likely. We can't be those nearly men though, Henry. We've got to get those deals over the line. As I was another one that was a disappointing one. We were all excited about signing Morgan Gibbs-White, that didn't happen. Of course, Xavi Simons walked through the door. He was meant to be our star signing of the summer. Uh Conor Gallagher, of course, January transfer window uh sign as well. And recently, both of those players have been on the bench. And I think that that says it all. You know, the recruitment needs to be a lot, lot better. >> you think in the in the January window, Levy would have panicked maybe a little bit more and brought in more than just what Soucek and Gallagher and the Yeah, I I I think it was very disappointing the explanation from the club, Johan Lange, saying, and actually come out and said there were only 33 signings in the Premier League during the month of January. Um you know, to almost justify This is why we didn't do business. Spurs were in a desperate situation. Um you know, in my opinion, Thomas Frank should have left the football club earlier to give a new manager time, um you know, to turn this around. And last ti