Is the Saudi Football Experiment Working?
Ben and Angus are joined by Middle East football expert, and co-host of the Obi One Podcast, Chris McHardy. The trio will examine whether or not the Saudi League is realising the success it craves. Plus, Fabrizio Romano looks at how active the Saudi's will be in January.
Transcript
hello once again this is the debrief and I'm anger Scott when such huge footballing names as Neymar benzar Conte mahrez and mané firmino and Henderson all went to Saudi to join Cristiano Ronaldo it seemed like there was a new footballing world order with eight months within eight months the Saudis had splashed out around $850 million on new players hived off world World Champions champions league and Premier League winners to Adorn their proleague but was that just the start with a month to go until the January transfer window opens we assess whether that was just the start of it whether the massive outlay has been worth it and what's next for the European top leagues who have lost a number of box office names to the kingdom remember for bro Romano will be with us very shortly to give us the latest on the Saudi project news of a possible Victor aiman move Spurs search for a center back and much more besides Ben Jacobs who has three second homes in Saudi is with me as ever that's actually accurate deam jeda Riad that's right you it is you know it better than Leicester actually I reckon at the moment you've been there that often I mean nothing's going to beat Leicester for a bit of Indian food but other than that I think I do prefer the sunshine of Saudi there you are and he's uh for those of you watching rather than listening he is adorning his Christmas jumper it's good to see that out of the closet again and joining us once more from the Middle East is journalist and broadcaster Chris mccardy who's seen closeand the league grow in 20123 Chris great to have you back on board the Deb yeah great to be back with young I'm still waiting for one house let alone three I'm getting there one day soon hopefully look last time you were on Chris you said there was 7 billion dollar in the pot to spend so there's still plenty more available to develop the league and are you expecting that to happen or to start happening more in January it's a great question Angus it's been an interesting you said it eight months is a long time since we we saw Saudi really come to the four from an international perspective I I've been really fascinated to see that the growth or lack thereof it' be interesting to get your boys thoughts on what the league is like from a UK K perspective in terms of its coverage certainly from a United Arab Emirates where I'm based I'm obviously based here in Dubai the league started with a bang of course it did Cristiano Ronaldo joining in January then came the big names the sario manise Etc in the summer but that hasn't really in my opinion it hasn't really translated I think we all forget a transfer window is nice you know journalists broadcasters were all looking for stories to you know fill the column inches fill the airwaves once the football starts we've got the Premier League back on our screens we've got La Liga Sy Bundesliga of course Harry Kane's moved to Bayern Munich has certainly catapulted Bundesliga back into everyone's Consciousness again and in a lot of ways I think the season starting in Saudi has actually had a bit of an adverse effect you know the transfers are done the the kind of soap opera if you will has been put to one side so I'm really interested by what January will bring we know Michael emelo formly of Chelsea forly of Monaco he's now tasked with this kind of transfer Guru if you will it's his job to put forward names that could help kind of really build the the profile and reputation of Saudi football so I'm sure he's got ideas I'm sure he does I'm sure the Saudis will be busy as to who they'll bring in though it's a big question mark we know January traditionally is very difficult to bring the very best names so I'm really intrigued as to who will be tempted who will be enticed by a move to the kingdom at the start of the brand new year Ben they can't be quiet though then they would lose momentum there has to be some positive news coming out of Saudi as far as they're concerned that they can still attract these players uh transfer window in transfer window out yeah but there's a paradox in many ways because if you're doing your job in football recruitment not just in Saudi Arabia with this project but even more broadly then you need that period of peace and if you're constantly signing signing signing then it might create headlines but it doesn't create stability so a ambitious first summer window is perhaps not supposed to be followed up by a crazy January and then again they'll move the following summer and then we'll see another period of pause and one reason for that is that there are foreign quotas so once you filled them you have a balancing act where you might need outgoings first so I think that the star names are important but they're not the be all and the end all young names are important developing Saudi Talent is also a big aspect here and as a con consquence we should look at the first summer of this project at least publicly as an anomaly and it will always be followed up by stars and there's actually exit Clauses to my knowledge that allow not only the players to leave but also the clubs to have a squad refresh so when you sign a three-year contract if they do want to chop and change because their quotas get full it's actually very easy legally speaking for them to release certain star name players and as a result we're always going to see movement but I think it's important to stress that if Saudi Arabia continue to only sign and sign and sign then by implication that is transients and if you have that constant merry go around you get yourself in a position where you don't get stability and the only way the League's going to achieve its ultimate aim which is to break into the top 10 in the world maybe even one day the top five in Europe is to have some kind of stability I still think we'll see a busyness particularly in the summers in the next few years but I don't think that last summer is going to be in every window kind of occurrence and if it was then I think that would actually be bad news for the Saudi pro league in terms of strategy strategy yes but uh public publicity no I I think there's a difficult balance here I think they've got to be on the front foot and keep uh everyone aware that the Saudi pro league has not gone away because after those transfers as Chris was saying it's all died down we've got to get back to normality but actually what the Saudis want as far as I understand it is anything but normality they want to shake up the system for as long as they can before they become that solid League that fits into the mold of of every other league in the world albeit with some star names in it I I I think there's a there is definitely a balance that they have got to um get right at the moment and if they go too quiet then I think the the luster of of coming out to play in the Saudi League will will diminish I completely agree with that I think you make a very Salient point there andus I think there there's two schools of thought here there there's the power Brokers who to your point will want the publicity and then there's those that're employing the likes of Carlo Nora a man that I know well and Ben knows well from his time here at the United Arab Emirates a man whose job is the CEO of the league Michael emelo they might have different thought process to come back to Ben's point I actually think moving away from a plan here I think a lot of it may come to down to circumstance I think you'll have a lot of clubs a lot of agents who will be knocking on the door in January and they'll be saying right we've got a player that we don't want whether if it's a club an agent I've got a player who perhaps wants to cash in at this juncture of his career so I think it will be more happen stance than perhaps plan in January you know I look at someone like a casmiro or Rafael Varan both players linked with moves Jim Radcliffe taking over at Manchester United May wa may well they have a future remains to be seen so I think January will be one where I'm not necessarily sure it'll be all that planned to B's point I think it's the Summers where you'd look for the Saudi kind of machine if you will to really you know kick into gear so I think jany it's fascinating as to you know exactly what will happen I'm sure there will be one or two moves to your point Angus because they need the publicity they need to re-energize the league after it's gone kind of quiet when the actual action has yeah I think one of the reasons why the league goes a little bit quiet is just because at the moment it's not been built to be competitive between all of the teams which is why Al hillal who are top at the moment can play alham over the course of the last few days and they can steamroll them and win 9 nil and those kind of results May make headlines but it's not ideal when you actually look at the top of the league it's a little bit tighter and more competitive Al helal are the leaders Al NASA lost their first two games but since then their form has been just as good as all and they're only four points off the top Al Ali a bit of a disappointment because on paper they should be right up there but they're only in third and they're already I believe nine points off the top and then Al had the defending Champions haven't had a good season which is why nuno's gone and in come Marcelo Gallardo which is a fascinating appointment and that will make headlines and in a different part of the world as well remember this isn't only about Europe it's not only about making headlines in England it's not only about taking Premier League players but I think that the League's challenge is that not only is there that mismatch at a football level at the moment anyway between the top few teams and the bottom of the table and it's a small league so it's a little bit more apparent but I think in addition to that you start the season and it's the worst time of year in terms of the climate so a lot of these new players have come and they've struggled to settle in the first few months they're kicking off at 9:00 it's been 30 to 35 degrees and I know that players like Jordan Henderson jotter who's not had a good time at Al ithad and has been largely frozen out even Karen Benzema have all found they've needed more games than they would if they were playing for a European side and then in addition to that Neymar's got injured and Ronaldo's flying but that's because again he joined the league a little bit earlier so it wouldn't surprise me if in the back half of the Season we see a bit more of a rais in standard as players start to acclimatize and then we'll work out where we're going to get a more exciting title race right now it's almost a league for social media Ronaldo scores a screamer and it gets a lot of attention but is there that appetite outside of Saudi Arabia or the Middle East and North Africa to watch a 90minut game and that's the long-term aim and the ambition in recruitment will always be faster than the ambition commercially the ambition to gain a global audience and the ambition to improve your infrastructure because all of these things take a lot more time than just entering the race for osam and entering the race for mbappe and so on so I think that's the mismatch and whereas you applaud the ambition of recruitment the rest of it is bound to take more time to catch up and the key I think Chris is that the Saudi strategists need to be patient and I think they are and instead of getting frustrated that not everything is going to happen overnight they need to stick to this long-term strategy because eventually if they do it will pay off but if they react if they keep making opportunistic signings Panic signings if they change their approach because they're not getting this overnight consistent impact then you suddenly reach a point where you're not being patient and patience is the only way that this project in my opinion anyway is going to succeed yeah yeah I agree and ultimately you know you look at it what are we heading into 2024 this has all of a sudden become a 10-year project is it's no secret Saudi Arabia will host the 2034 World Cup Australia have bowed out they've said thank you but no thanks over to you the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia so to your point Ben I think there is a little bit of patience everything that I see and read and everything that I hear out of the kingdom is that there are you know some sensible people in some key positions and and by sensible I mean individuals with a vision and who want to see it through so yeah essentially they've got 10 years to get this right there will be in comings they'll be outgoings as well I'm not quite sure it'll be quite like the uee pro league where we've seen a stockpiling of talent contracts been ended FIFA getting involved it's been a bit messy at times over certainly in this part of the Middle East I think Saudi yes there are one or two players to your point being J has not hit the ground running but in the main the big names who did make the move Alexander mitovich I throw him in there say Sergey minkovich Savage Ruben Neves you know they've all done by and Lars they've done well certainly from an alh pers perspective Ser mink Savage Ruben Nev Malcolm as well I mean my goodness Al Halal and they've got a competent manager in Jorge who Zeus as well the Portuguese so yeah if you get it right it just shows you can go a very long way in the Saudi pro league I yeah I I'm I'm looking at what a difficult balance this is and uh if if I'm a if I'm a PR man I'm still thinking I've got to tickle this along I let's compare it to the the way that Liv has started and slightly stalled and our obviously had to find a merger it it it's made an impression which is you know without sort of tarnishing everyone in the Middle East with the same brush they do Splash out money make an impression and then try for things to follow on afterwards and and it's the but the ability to sustain a league is far more difficult than to spend a load of cash entice a load of players who are coming towards the end of their career the major majority of them than it is to develop a bona fiday League that is going to challenge World football yeah you're right ultimately getting that structure off the pitch Angus that's what it comes down to right it's increasing the facilities I won't name a source but there's a well- told story in these parts about Jordan Henderson who arrived with his wife and inside two days was a bit surprised let's just put it like that by the lack of facility or at least the standard of facilities at Al within four days yeah you heard that right within four days state-ofthe-art gym equipment was flown in especially at Jordan's request from the UK and I am told Al fact now have one of the best gymnasiums anywhere in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia so they're they're tapping in to to the mindsets of these players that they've brought in they are learning from them as they go along as well because to your point yes you can spend all this money on bigname players but I think coming back to it and the goal now with 2034 in mind is the stadia the facilities the luk and field the training grounds huge investment is going into the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia whether it comes to infrastructure whether it comes to the big names as well as the facilities Rome wasn't built in a day but I can assure you a lot of the big clubs are putting Provisions in place where they will be the Envy of world football clubs the Manchester United of this world and know Old Trafford for good to say is leaking carington is falling behind you know there will be a time soon where Saudi football clubs your alh your Eads they'll have facilities the Envy of any club on the planet should they have Ben do you feel they should have had it before they signed in these big players look if the Jordan Henderson story is is just one of of probably many where they've come in and gone hang on that the the the facilities we have here is are not right they're way behind the desire to have a a decent League yeah you know better than most angers sometimes in the Middle East the thought and thus the finances goes the bigger picture and the glamour so they'll spend a bunch of money meticulously arranging fireworks or a light show for Neymar's unveiling but they'll forget to bring in a bike or a rowing machine which is essential to the dayto day or they won't invest or think to begin with about the dietry requirements of a player that's joined from the Premier League but they'll happily build a brand new sports science facility or a state-of-the-art hospital and that was the same in doar as well in the buildup to the World Cup so it's no surprise that the really high level stuff for sports athletes relating to science relating to data relating for example to injury recovery can be there but at these individual clubs they're not all the biggest so Jordan Henderson joined alifa they've just moved into a new stadium but prior to that they were playing somewhere relatively small they were getting even on a good day under 10,000 and the whole club reflects that from the dining room to the gym to the training facilities so I think on the one hand yes you're right that they could have looked at that but sometimes these things take more time or sometimes the problem only becomes apparent after the star name arrives so the Counterpoint I'd say is in addition to what you suggest which is should the clubs have built the infrastructure before starting this project well yes we possible but it isn't always possible but I think the other thing I'd say is the Players need to do their due diligence as well because if after four days as Chris says Jordan Henderson surprised then great that they were able to rectify that but Jordan Henderson like any footballer should not be surprised at what they are walking into they should also do their due diligence yeah you you get a decent wage though and and you're happy to overlook some things aren't you really yeah but Henderson says he didn't join for the money of of course not many people believe him but I think essentially the key point in all of this is just are the clubs going to fulfill a strategy because players can have more confidence regardless of what's there now if they know that there's the money there and also there's the plan there and again then they just have to be patient I went to alcadia Chris knows that club well Robbie Fowler I'd say fically lost his job when you consider that he hadn't lost a game in the league but when I went post much into the media center when I visited them it was also where the players were doing the warm down and there were exercise bikes that had been moved into that room and there was dunking donuts boxes for the players postmatch they weren't having Donuts specifically but it was the juice and it was snacks from dunking donuts and you think wait a minute if this ambition is there to be top five you got a long way to go with your facilities with your gym with your media center um with your food because we all love a Donuts but there's not a football or a lie even the top five leagues in the world that will have one immediately after playing so there is work to be done but I think In fairness to the deal makers and the ministry of sport and the individual clubs they're well aware of that and I would imagine with the club World Cup with various asab based football tournaments and as Chris alluded to the 2034 World Cup as well all of this will be fixed relatively quickly after that Duncan Donuts pluged B I'm expecting them to be a sponsor next week on this let's hope so because as as non as non Sportsmen we're allowed to have them definitely after after the show I think you you disappear to The Green Room the virtual green room and have your dunking donut anyway on on that note we'll take a little pause um because we are discussing will Saudi spent big in Ja