Sean Dyche Knows Exactly Why His Phone Rings
Sean Dyche on life after Nottingham Forest, changing management and the conditions for a return
Sean Dyche reflects on life after leaving Nottingham Forest, discussing shrinking patience in modern football, the pressure of firefighting jobs, social media and how management has changed. He is open to returning but only for a clear, realistic project, and measures achievement against a club's circumstances rather than trophies alone.
- Modern football has less and less patience, even for people with a connection to the club, and managers must deliver immediately and often beyond expectations — He argues that crowds and the wider game have changed, tolerance is shrinking, and even lower-league sides are expected to play like Barcelona.
- Winning is no longer enough; you also have to win in the accepted way, and that has changed the pressure of management — He says people constantly ask why the team is not doing this or that, and the weight of wins and defeats makes it hard for managers to enjoy the game.
- He is in no rush to take the next job and will only consider the right project, though he has not ruled out a return — He says he has turned down some approaches, his age and experience make him more selective, and football has never defined him as a person.
- Being labelled a firefighter is not entirely bad, because it can make struggling clubs think of him — He notes that when teams struggle early in the season his name is linked immediately, which shows the label can also bring opportunities.
- Football stadiums produce "stadium rage", with normally calm people becoming irrational inside and returning to normal afterwards — He compares it to road rage and contrasts it with gigs, where everyone is happy and there for the same experience.
- Brian Clough's management relied more on environment, standards and players learning for themselves than on heavy day-to-day coaching, so his methods are hard to copy simply — He says Clough did very little coaching and instead made everyone learn the Forest way, with those who did not learn it having to leave.
- Modern management has to move from simply giving orders to explaining and guiding players, while the coach keeps a core set of principles — He says academy-produced players know more but still make mistakes, so every part must be explained while maintaining what he calls the "truth line".
- What he values most in a next job is a club with a clear sense of reality and a project it will stick to — He cites Everton, where the internal message was explicitly about staying in the Premier League and did not keep changing, which he found refreshing.
- Achievement should not be judged only by trophies; meeting targets relative to a club's circumstances matters just as much — He points to Burnley reaching Europe and Everton staying up, arguing that success must be measured against a club's finances and situation.
Sean Dyche joins us for a candid and hilarious chat about life away from the touchline. From being linked with every struggling club in the country to explaining why football fans suffer from "stadium rage", Dyche reflects on management, social media, Nottingham Forest, Everton, music, family life and what it would take to tempt him back into the dugout. Follow more on the BBC Sport app, iPlayer and Sounds. ============= Find us here: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BBCMOTD X: https://x.com/BBCMOTD Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bbcfootball/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@bbcsport bbcfootball
Transcript
and you see a few teams struggling and your name's linked straight away. >> Who do you call Ghostbusters? Not moaning about it. It's just a reality of the job. So if you don't want the job, don't take it. No, it's simple. I call the stadium rage in football. You know, normal people turned mad. >> I guess it shows how much the game has changed. >> Has it? >> Sean, good to see you. Not in a training ground, not at a football club, not in tracksuit >> or suit. debate over my tracksuit or soon. >> But looking very relaxed. How's life at the moment? >> Yeah, it's been good. You know, just different. Obviously hardship of coming out of a job at Forest, which meant a lot to me, you know, because of my connection with the area and my past, but life changes quickly and now loads of media stuff and and sort of some some sim serious stuff as well. You know, I've been doing some work for UEFA and various FAS who ask me to talk and do Q&As and stuff like that. So, that's good. And then some charity bits I do. And then also some fun stuff that I've enjoyed as well. Bit of variety then. >> Yeah, it's been good. Actually, you'd be surprised. I mean, I went [snorts] on social media as well this this year for the first time. It was my daughter's idea that's been saying for me the last couple years. >> I was going to bring that up. >> Yeah, I thought you might. >> Hi there. This is Sean D. Just got back from the gym. Just uh opening this world of social media. So, might be good for you hopefully if you're interested. If it's Tik Tok dances and all that, highly unlikely. Sorry, but it's something I I never thought I thought I'd see the day having interviewed you across the years that Shawn Dy should be on social media. >> Yeah, but everyone says that. But when you look back, if you remember my interviews because everyone makes out now. They say, "Oh, he's not even into he's against it." No, I wasn't. I said in every interview I said I'm not against it. >> You gave us the clips, didn't you? >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, but I just go it wasn't for me at that time. And I'm not saying it's for me forever, but you know, I think my daughter's angle was look, you know, you got to stay current in many different ways. And if you look at like the bigger way far bigger managers than me, you know, Ringho and Klopp and all them guys haven't been doing it for a long time, you know, and I just thought, well, it's about time I wasn't such a dinosaur, mate. Got it. Got in with the real world. >> In the comments section, leave any questions you want of any kind and I'll answer to them. Link is under my bio. >> So, you've got a lot of variety and you're obviously in quite a good place at at the moment, but I did want to ask you about leaving Nottingham Forest. You mentioned it without me even bringing it up that it was was a club. We're in Nottingham today. It's a city that means a lot to you. How difficult was that period? Not not necessarily just the way it ended, but the way you perhaps weren't given that long there. >> Yeah, I mean, look, it's the changing face of football. So, I think the demand's high everywhere. I think the disappointment for me and the staff, we all had connections with Forest. So, you know, but I think I think that kind of uh you know, the crowds change, it's not just football changes, you know, managers change, teams change, players change, but also crowds change. you know their demand on what they expect is different you know and I think there was a time maybe there was a longer tolerance for people who had been at a club and cared about the club maybe ex players managers you know or or coaches become managers I just think life's changing no tolerance level and everything is getting shorter so tolerance is going to change and often you find you know because of my lifetime in football since I was 16 I turned 55 this summer if if life is changing and the people inside the stadium are changing so I'm pretty I wouldn't say philosophical but I'm pretty open-minded about Look, this is the the modern reality of football and you've got to deliver now and you've got to deliver beyond expectation in virtually all parts of football now. It's not just the Premier League. You know, I know some lower league managers who are working very hard and, you know, all expected to play like Barcelona. You know, you go, "It's not that easy." >> You've been out of a managerial job since February. That's quite a long time for someone that spent their whole life in football, isn't it? >> Yeah. I mean, I was trying to think I I think it was similarish when I came out of Burnley. I think it was about eight months going back into Everton. Um, >> getting itchy feet now. >> Well, it's similar, isn't it? It's funny that. No, I I think I think this time's slightly different. I think, you know, I don't I don't particularly I mean, look, it's it's got great value and worth when you help clubs out of a tough situation. Um, but I don't think you want to be firefighting forever. It does get taxing on not just you as a person, but it gets taxing on what what the situation is. You know, the wins become so vital and so heavy that you can't quite enjoy it like you used to do. And then the losses become so heavy that it's not enjoyable, you know. And that's >> is that is that how you felt towards the end of your >> Yeah, I think well I think all managers are getting like that because the you know the demand is so high now you don't winning used to be the bill endor now it's winning um winning the right way, winning this way, winning that way, you know, why aren't we doing that? Why aren't we doing that? And it just changed. And like I say, I don't when I do these interviews, I try and explain to people. I'm not moaning about it. It's just a reality of the job. So if you don't want the job, don't take it. No, it's simple. Has the phone been busy there in terms of >> There's been some calls from different people. Um I've pushed back on them so far and just said no, not for me. >> Is that really important to you to for the next opportunity to be the right one if if that right one comes? >> I think because of the years I've done in it and I think because of my age, I think I'm just looking at it slightly different. It doesn't mean I'm not because people are sort of saying I'm not going to do it again and they they they start talking for you as you know. It's funny that you talk and yet they don't listen to you. They make a story. >> I'm going to just let never let the truth get that I [laughter] have a good story. I'm just going to keep trying to push you till you say it. That's my >> exactly. No. So, it's not a never situation, but equally, I've got to open my mind to what comes next. In a positive way, I don't think football has ever defined me as a person. People think it does. I I've never made out. I remember got interviewed, I think it was Pelleigrini, who was at West Ham at the time, and I think he was coming up to 70 or something, his 70th birthday, >> and they were saying, "Can you see yourself doing it at 70?" I said, "Absolutely not." >> And that's no slant on him. Some people are made to just do the same thing forever. I don't think I am. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned the phrase firefighting before. That was often what you were brought in to do, wasn't it really? And does that feel a bit unfair almost? You feel like you got kind of tired. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the way it goes. I mean, you know, people talk about, you know, because life in football, as you know, in the media because you work in it, they do put you in a box. But sometimes No, but don't forget though, sometimes that can reward you because another way because they you do you do people go, "Well, who do you need? Get that guy in." >> I've seen it already at the start of this season. You see a few teams struggling and your name's linked [snorts] straight away. >> Who do you call Ghostbusters? No, I mean [laughter] get get that guy in. He'll do something for you. He'll try. Anyway, >> you're still keeping your hands in at football. I've seen you pitched a few games, a few non-league games. And also your son is playing. >> Yeah, my son my son's currently sort of in out the edge of Northampton town, but he's played quite a few games. So, yeah, I try and watch him when I can. >> Is that quite nice being able to be a football dad a bit because I imagine you haven't been able to. >> Well, it is in the sense. Yeah, because I missed, you know, a lot of games and stuff like that is when we'll go to games and I try and get there when I could. Um, and then my daughter's off at uni, so I can try and get some time to see her as well. She's at Newcastle uni, so you know, when I can. Um, so these are the things that people forget as well. You know, you do you do have a life somewhere in there, somewhere in the midst of being a Premier League manager as such. >> I wanted to ask you a bit more about being a football dad, though, because that comes with a lot of pressure for your son, I imagine, having always been Sha Dish's. >> Yeah, but what's that been like helping his journey? >> No, he's all right with it. He's all right with it. He's he's grown into >> He like you. Um, I suppose he is, you know, it's funny, actually, because there's this ongoing debate about people saying that he doesn't look like me, but when you see pictures of me at his age, you go, "Oh, he does." >> Does he sound like you? >> He's got a little bit going [laughter] on. I mean, he's not quite this. Um, yeah. So, football dad is is interest. I don't I don't I never shouted at him when he was a kid. I never shouted from the sidelines. I don't get too involved now. I give him some pointers. Well, I thought let him learn and let him want to do it. >> So, you're not ranting and raving on the sidelines? >> No. And it's I tend to, you know, because I want it to be about Max's career. >> Yeah. >> I tend to not go away either because at Northampton I played Daisy at the end of my career. So people just go right Sean, you know, but if I turn up at wherever it may be, you know what it's like. It caused a bit of a thing and then the modern life, you know, people want selfies and all that. So I can't enjoy it so much. But at Northampton, they more or less leave me alone, you know, just let me get on with it. >> I want to ask you about music. Where did the love of it come from? Do >> you know I always love music. I got two older brothers. So I'm the youngest obviously though I went through the sort of mid70s scar scene then into like the punk scene then the new romantic scene and then into sort of going into gigs and the one who started with Stuart Pierce. He got me at Forest even though I'd left Forest and I'd gone on loan to Chesterfield. >> He likes a gig, doesn't he? >> He loves a gig. He's been to way more than me. So yeah, so we we he started it um the gig bus as he used to call it at Forest and even though I'd left [snorts] >> gig bus. Yeah. So he used to get Chaz the the fellow who ran the ground in them days supposed like a general manager pay him a few quid and he used to drive the minibus and we used to get on the mini bus and go and watch gigs and I just I just love a gig night. It's not about I always make it clear I don't know every album. I don't know every word. I don't know every song. I just love the vibe of gigs. I think it's a great atmosphere. >> Everyone's just in a great mood, aren't they? There for the same thing. >> Yeah. You go there almost buzzing before you've got there. >> It's a bit different to football where you go there and you might be a bit angry and if a team don't play well, you get angrier. Whereas at the gig >> I call it I call it stadium rage in football. You know, it's like car, you know, at car rage, road rage, sorry. They go in a stadium and normal people turn mad and then afterwards they turn back to normal again. So, um, whereas gigs, everyone's kind of happy mood. >> So, in terms of [music] this time off that you've had, I know you've been clearly keeping very busy. Has it given you time to reflect on what was an incredible playing career and managerial career that's seen you taken in so many games? >> I always said in 10 years time I'll maybe look back and enjoy it more. And I think we do. and me and my staff who who mostly live local, but if they don't, we try and travel in and we meet up every sort of, you know, six, eight weeks or whatever. So, we we always have a chat about old times and all that sort of stuff. So, it is getting more and more enjoyable over the years. It's like the Everton thing at the at the time is awful. You know, you come out there and people want change and no surprise to you, I'm sure, but the amount of others come out to me and just say, "Thanks for, you know, taking us through that period." But at the time, you know, it's all hard and they want change. But now they look back and go and I always said that would be the case. But >> so I enjoy it. But I enjoy all my clubs. To manage Forest was unbelievable for me. I mean it since I've never got I haven't got a gripe about anyone in Nottingham or the Forest fans or anything like that. >> I just still I still got the chance, you know, cuz when I was apprentice and young pro, I didn't get the chance, you know, so to to play albeit not playing the first team, but to manage the first team very pleasing and very rewarding. H >> Brian Kloff was manager of course when you came through forest. I wonder what kind of influence he had on you as one of the greatest kind of ever managers. >> Brian Cliff was different legend that he is, but his way of managing it wouldn't it's not that it wouldn't survive today because he could see the game. I mean, he could see what was going on, but coaching wise, very little coaching. It was almost like the the the uh the environment, you know, and what it stood for. It was almost like everyone learned the forest way and if you didn't learn it, you're out. So it's like a lot of self learning there you know a lot of demand on the players you know set piece the ball comes in go and edit no you know seriously you know center forward get hold of it soon head it and kick it and you've done your job anything else is a bonus >> I guess it shows how much the game has changed >> has it or do we do we all make out that it has >> do you not think there you go there's a question to you >> no of course it's changed but it's not as much as everyone makes out >> has management changed then >> management has had to change because life's changed the players have changed you have You have to think more about them now, you know, because they brought it through academy systems, you know, it's a different thing now. D guided discovery, not just telling them what to do. You have to explain every part of what they have to do. And then usually it's still wrong, which is that's the weird bit about it. You know, no, I mean, since I've normally got players, I find it very frustrating. They've got more than they've ever had. They've got everything you can learn about football and yet still sort of disprove things. Now you go, coaching's changed. You know, I don't I don't prove I'm not trying to prove myself right. Trust me. I'm trying to prove that I can help them. M >> and it's still I still find that quite quite a challenge you know because it was like I can't describe it but maybe when I first started players it was almost like they they knew deep down that you were trying to help them you know guide them and help them. Um but but that's part of the change in management and I think the modern managers or younger managers I should say I think they've they've got maybe a better handle on that side of it because they've maybe just come through that part of life you know the social media sort of generation all that sort of thing. So yeah, I've had to change and and I think have but and it's an it's an important but because you still have to have a core I call it the truth line in what you do >> you know what the players are what you are what you stand for as a manager and I still think that's in in you know intact with me but I've become a lot more flexible from that >> what would it take to get Sha Dish back into management now >> I think like anything the hardest thing to get now is reality that's the hardest part of football now in any job at any level ever was a good example to make it even more clear when I went in there, they made it absolutely clear. This is going to be really tough. We're going to have to make this work. Your job is to find a way of making this work and we have to stay in the Premier League, >> at least on you. You >> know what I mean? There was no wondering, there was no changing the the the story line inhouse particularly. Obviously, you have to be a bit more flexible with the media. That's part of your job as well as manager. It was really tough there as well, you know, the media side of things, but at least inside they went, "This is still what we've got to do." Mhm. >> So that's refreshing as a manager even though it's [clears throat] really hard. Um cuz you can't project that >> clarity then you want to know exactly what you're working with. >> So if someone's got a project use a trendy term there's another one for you before I'll throw in philosophy in a minute. Goodness me. But if someone's got an idea where they go right this is what we actually need and we're going to stick to it then I think every manager likes that idea. Certainly I do. >> What else do you still want to achieve then? Is [snorts] it is there anything in football? Is there anything out of football? >> Yeah. Yeah. Football's different because the achieve, you know, I've achieved many things. People people view achievement, I mean, you'd know this, you know, people view achievement on you didn't win this, you didn't win that. But in the clubs I've been at relative, you know, you look at Burnley getting to Europe, >> you look at their their financial um way that Burnley worked and what it got sold for and the amount of money that was in the club, the trading model, and you look at Evans slightly differently. Staying up was a massive achievement, Evan Football Club, and Forest was different. We achieved it in a different way. Not what they wanted, but we got them through a period. You know if you look at the points tally I think was average of 1.47 47 through the Europa League and through the league, you know, >> doesn't sound a lot, but it is for a team that had lost the previous eight or what drawn one in eight, you know. So there's, you know, these all different achievements, but they're not necessarily the achievement that everyone thinks is the achievement, which is usually to win something, of course. So, >> so the next achievement could be it could be helping someone out again. It could be as simple as that. It is rewarding that, you know, it feels good when you help clubs out. >> Um, or it could be a different project abroad. Who knows? I mean, I think I think if the right, you know, the right thing, the right time, the right venue, the right place, you know, South. Yeah, [laughter] of course. Yeah, I am a regular there. Yeah, >> I just jump off my yacht and go manage every day and then back on the yacht. Of course, you can see that with me kind of. >> Um, this is something that I always ask um everyone that we interview. Tell me something about yourself that might surprise people. >> I don't know. I'm pretty open in these interviews. Um, trying to think. I can cook. I'm a good cook. Yeah, >> we've had that a few times. It seems that everyone thinks that football >> when I was a player because obviously you got a lot more time on your hands when you're a player than a manager. So, I used to cook virtually every day. >> So, um what's your specialtity? >> Main mainly I can throw together all kinds of pasta dishes but pretty decent on